1
00:00:02,080 --> 00:00:05,530
uh

2
00:00:10,420 --> 00:00:05,550
[Music]

3
00:00:16,630 --> 00:00:10,430
[Applause]

4
00:00:37,590 --> 00:00:16,640
[Music]

5
00:00:42,790 --> 00:00:40,150
hi everyone welcome to the very first

6
00:00:44,950 --> 00:00:42,800
episode of the rabbit hole conversations

7
00:00:46,709 --> 00:00:44,960
i'm your host kelly chase

8
00:00:49,029 --> 00:00:46,719
i'm assuming that a good number of you

9
00:00:50,869 --> 00:00:49,039
know me from my other podcast the ufo

10
00:00:53,270 --> 00:00:50,879
rabbit hole but for those of you who

11
00:00:55,910 --> 00:00:53,280
don't i'll do a quick introduction

12
00:00:58,470 --> 00:00:55,920
a year ago i was a skeptic about

13
00:01:00,310 --> 00:00:58,480
everything in fact skeptic might not

14
00:01:02,229 --> 00:01:00,320
even be quite the right word because it

15
00:01:03,910 --> 00:01:02,239
would imply that i considered that there

16
00:01:06,710 --> 00:01:03,920
might be more to our reality than meets

17
00:01:09,270 --> 00:01:06,720
the eye but was unconvinced but honestly

18
00:01:11,429 --> 00:01:09,280
i hadn't even really considered it i was

19
00:01:14,630 --> 00:01:11,439
locked into a dogmatic way of thinking

20
00:01:16,870 --> 00:01:14,640
that made such considerations impossible

21
00:01:18,550 --> 00:01:16,880
but then something changed

22
00:01:20,390 --> 00:01:18,560
through the fevered cacophony of the

23
00:01:22,550 --> 00:01:20,400
pandemic news cycle that seemed to

24
00:01:25,429 --> 00:01:22,560
careen daily from one disaster to the

25
00:01:27,429 --> 00:01:25,439
next i started to pick up on a strange

26
00:01:29,270 --> 00:01:27,439
little story that seemed to be slow

27
00:01:31,350 --> 00:01:29,280
dripping in the background

28
00:01:34,149 --> 00:01:31,360
something that even in the midst of this

29
00:01:37,510 --> 00:01:34,159
rising tide of the bizarre and chaotic

30
00:01:39,510 --> 00:01:37,520
seemed too strange to possibly be real

31
00:01:41,990 --> 00:01:39,520
and though i followed this story on the

32
00:01:43,030 --> 00:01:42,000
periphery it was with only a vague

33
00:01:44,469 --> 00:01:43,040
interest

34
00:01:47,030 --> 00:01:44,479
i assumed that it would eventually

35
00:01:49,270 --> 00:01:47,040
dissipate disappearing off to wherever

36
00:01:51,429 --> 00:01:49,280
murder hornets and forest clowns and

37
00:01:53,510 --> 00:01:51,439
other oddities of the fear-driven media

38
00:01:55,910 --> 00:01:53,520
go once they've moved on to the next

39
00:01:58,469 --> 00:01:55,920
imminent unavoidable threat

40
00:02:00,469 --> 00:01:58,479
it started in december of 2017 with the

41
00:02:02,550 --> 00:02:00,479
leak of three videos alleged to have

42
00:02:05,749 --> 00:02:02,560
been filmed by navy pilots of what can

43
00:02:08,070 --> 00:02:05,759
really only be described as ufos

44
00:02:10,469 --> 00:02:08,080
the appearance of these videos coincided

45
00:02:12,869 --> 00:02:10,479
with a stunning new york times article

46
00:02:15,350 --> 00:02:12,879
revealing the existence of a secret ufo

47
00:02:18,309 --> 00:02:15,360
program within the pentagon and telling

48
00:02:20,710 --> 00:02:18,319
the story of luis elizondo the man who

49
00:02:23,470 --> 00:02:20,720
ran this program before resigning in

50
00:02:25,510 --> 00:02:23,480
protest over what he saw as the

51
00:02:27,990 --> 00:02:25,520
over-classification of information

52
00:02:30,390 --> 00:02:28,000
surrounding the ufo phenomenon and the

53
00:02:32,470 --> 00:02:30,400
department of defense's refusal to

54
00:02:34,309 --> 00:02:32,480
engage this as a legitimate national

55
00:02:36,869 --> 00:02:34,319
security threat

56
00:02:39,509 --> 00:02:36,879
then in april of 2020 right as the

57
00:02:41,830 --> 00:02:39,519
pandemic was kicking into high gear the

58
00:02:44,150 --> 00:02:41,840
pentagon quietly declassified these

59
00:02:46,869 --> 00:02:44,160
three leaked videos confirming their

60
00:02:48,550 --> 00:02:46,879
authenticity and a few months later

61
00:02:50,710 --> 00:02:48,560
tucked into the december stimulus

62
00:02:52,949 --> 00:02:50,720
package was something odd

63
00:02:55,509 --> 00:02:52,959
an amendment requiring the pentagon to

64
00:02:57,350 --> 00:02:55,519
deliver a report to congress outlining

65
00:03:00,630 --> 00:02:57,360
all of the information that they had

66
00:03:04,309 --> 00:03:00,640
concerning ufos or unidentified aerial

67
00:03:06,949 --> 00:03:04,319
phenomenon as they had come to be called

68
00:03:09,030 --> 00:03:06,959
in june of 2021 this report was

69
00:03:11,589 --> 00:03:09,040
delivered to congress and though they

70
00:03:15,110 --> 00:03:11,599
hedged and obfuscated there was one

71
00:03:19,270 --> 00:03:15,120
clear and frankly astonishing admission

72
00:03:22,949 --> 00:03:19,280
uaps aka ufos are real

73
00:03:24,949 --> 00:03:22,959
and we have no idea what they are

74
00:03:26,869 --> 00:03:24,959
if you want to hear more about my own

75
00:03:28,869 --> 00:03:26,879
trip down the ufo rabbit hole and how i

76
00:03:30,949 --> 00:03:28,879
got here you can check out my other

77
00:03:33,750 --> 00:03:30,959
podcast linked in the episode notes

78
00:03:36,229 --> 00:03:33,760
below but suffice it to say that this

79
00:03:37,670 --> 00:03:36,239
revelation changed my life in more ways

80
00:03:39,509 --> 00:03:37,680
than one

81
00:03:40,550 --> 00:03:39,519
but perhaps the most significant was

82
00:03:43,030 --> 00:03:40,560
this

83
00:03:45,670 --> 00:03:43,040
i was confronted with the unescapable

84
00:03:47,910 --> 00:03:45,680
realization that my view of the world

85
00:03:51,030 --> 00:03:47,920
and in fact the very nature of my

86
00:03:54,229 --> 00:03:51,040
reality was nothing like i'd assumed

87
00:03:57,190 --> 00:03:54,239
it was humbling it was terrifying and it

88
00:03:59,270 --> 00:03:57,200
was exhilarating i was hooked

89
00:04:02,390 --> 00:03:59,280
i was also more than a little concerned

90
00:04:06,229 --> 00:04:04,949
after all a year ago i was a strict

91
00:04:08,149 --> 00:04:06,239
materialist

92
00:04:10,550 --> 00:04:08,159
i saw the universe as being ruled

93
00:04:12,630 --> 00:04:10,560
entirely by the laws of physics

94
00:04:14,789 --> 00:04:12,640
i saw the cosmos as no more than

95
00:04:17,189 --> 00:04:14,799
billiard balls set in motion by an

96
00:04:19,110 --> 00:04:17,199
indescribably large explosion billions

97
00:04:21,030 --> 00:04:19,120
of years ago that would continue to

98
00:04:24,469 --> 00:04:21,040
bounce off of each other in predictable

99
00:04:26,950 --> 00:04:24,479
and deterministic ways for billions more

100
00:04:29,670 --> 00:04:26,960
i felt awe at the scale and grandeur of

101
00:04:31,590 --> 00:04:29,680
it all but there was no mystery

102
00:04:34,390 --> 00:04:31,600
and even in humanity i saw nothing

103
00:04:36,550 --> 00:04:34,400
special just another kind of animal an

104
00:04:39,189 --> 00:04:36,560
overly anxious idiosyncratic and

105
00:04:41,030 --> 00:04:39,199
undeniably interesting animal but

106
00:04:42,629 --> 00:04:41,040
not so different from any other beasts

107
00:04:45,189 --> 00:04:42,639
of the land or sea is to warrant a

108
00:04:47,749 --> 00:04:45,199
special status in the cosmic order

109
00:04:49,590 --> 00:04:47,759
a soul was only a fanciful abstraction

110
00:04:51,270 --> 00:04:49,600
created by the minds of people who were

111
00:04:53,110 --> 00:04:51,280
too afraid to die

112
00:04:55,430 --> 00:04:53,120
and when we died i was certain that

113
00:04:57,430 --> 00:04:55,440
there was only darkness

114
00:05:00,070 --> 00:04:57,440
but sometime over the spring and summer

115
00:05:02,070 --> 00:05:00,080
of 2021 as i devoured everything i could

116
00:05:04,390 --> 00:05:02,080
get my hands on with regard to the topic

117
00:05:05,590 --> 00:05:04,400
of the ufo phenomenon all of that

118
00:05:08,550 --> 00:05:05,600
changed

119
00:05:11,590 --> 00:05:08,560
i suddenly believed not just in ufos and

120
00:05:14,550 --> 00:05:11,600
visitation from non-human intelligences

121
00:05:16,550 --> 00:05:14,560
but in god the soul and a profound

122
00:05:18,629 --> 00:05:16,560
destiny for humanity that i couldn't

123
00:05:21,430 --> 00:05:18,639
quite see the shape of but that i knew

124
00:05:23,270 --> 00:05:21,440
with a deep conviction was there and

125
00:05:25,350 --> 00:05:23,280
always had been

126
00:05:27,670 --> 00:05:25,360
there was so much going on in my head it

127
00:05:29,510 --> 00:05:27,680
consumed me and i wanted to tell the

128
00:05:31,990 --> 00:05:29,520
people closest to me what i was going

129
00:05:33,029 --> 00:05:32,000
through but whenever i tried i sounded

130
00:05:34,710 --> 00:05:33,039
crazy

131
00:05:37,590 --> 00:05:34,720
i could hear the words coming out of my

132
00:05:41,110 --> 00:05:37,600
mouth and i knew how they sounded it was

133
00:05:43,189 --> 00:05:41,120
all too big too vast too profound

134
00:05:45,270 --> 00:05:43,199
i couldn't wrap my mind around it much

135
00:05:47,590 --> 00:05:45,280
less organize it into a logical and

136
00:05:50,390 --> 00:05:47,600
coherent stream of words

137
00:05:52,550 --> 00:05:50,400
so was i crazy

138
00:05:54,150 --> 00:05:52,560
i started the ufo rabbit hole podcast as

139
00:05:55,270 --> 00:05:54,160
an attempt to answer that question for

140
00:05:58,070 --> 00:05:55,280
myself

141
00:06:00,070 --> 00:05:58,080
i've labored over each and every episode

142
00:06:02,710 --> 00:06:00,080
doing my best to lay out what happened

143
00:06:05,350 --> 00:06:02,720
in my head in a linear narrative order

144
00:06:07,749 --> 00:06:05,360
and meticulously documenting my sources

145
00:06:09,749 --> 00:06:07,759
for every scrap of evidence

146
00:06:10,790 --> 00:06:09,759
and through that slow and plotting

147
00:06:12,710 --> 00:06:10,800
process

148
00:06:14,150 --> 00:06:12,720
i've managed to find my way back to

149
00:06:16,390 --> 00:06:14,160
solid ground

150
00:06:17,830 --> 00:06:16,400
i may not know exactly what's going on

151
00:06:20,309 --> 00:06:17,840
but it's real

152
00:06:23,189 --> 00:06:20,319
as people often say in the ufo community

153
00:06:25,510 --> 00:06:23,199
there is a there there

154
00:06:28,070 --> 00:06:25,520
and in the ufo community i found a group

155
00:06:30,070 --> 00:06:28,080
of people who by and large are not the

156
00:06:31,590 --> 00:06:30,080
tinfoil hat wearing nut jobs that i've

157
00:06:33,990 --> 00:06:31,600
been taught to expect

158
00:06:35,990 --> 00:06:34,000
although that element certainly exists

159
00:06:38,150 --> 00:06:36,000
but what i found instead was a

160
00:06:40,550 --> 00:06:38,160
collection of thoughtful intelligent

161
00:06:43,430 --> 00:06:40,560
people dedicated to rigorous and

162
00:06:46,230 --> 00:06:43,440
scientific pursuit of the truth wherever

163
00:06:48,870 --> 00:06:46,240
that may lead and with a deep knowledge

164
00:06:52,150 --> 00:06:48,880
not just of ufo history and lore but of

165
00:06:54,550 --> 00:06:52,160
philosophy mathematics physics history

166
00:06:56,710 --> 00:06:54,560
consciousness and more who have all

167
00:06:58,150 --> 00:06:56,720
found their way to this one stunning

168
00:07:01,270 --> 00:06:58,160
conclusion

169
00:07:02,710 --> 00:07:01,280
we're not alone and we never have been

170
00:07:04,390 --> 00:07:02,720
and although there are people who have

171
00:07:06,469 --> 00:07:04,400
predicted the imminence of such a

172
00:07:07,670 --> 00:07:06,479
revelation throughout the past hundred

173
00:07:09,589 --> 00:07:07,680
years or so

174
00:07:10,870 --> 00:07:09,599
and perhaps even thousands of years into

175
00:07:12,790 --> 00:07:10,880
our past

176
00:07:14,469 --> 00:07:12,800
the events playing out at the highest

177
00:07:16,790 --> 00:07:14,479
levels of the united states government

178
00:07:18,950 --> 00:07:16,800
regarding the ufo phenomenon

179
00:07:20,390 --> 00:07:18,960
seem to be coming to an undeniable

180
00:07:22,070 --> 00:07:20,400
crescendo

181
00:07:24,150 --> 00:07:22,080
things are moving in a way that they

182
00:07:26,309 --> 00:07:24,160
never have before

183
00:07:29,270 --> 00:07:26,319
perhaps most significantly just a few

184
00:07:31,350 --> 00:07:29,280
months ago in december of 2021 the

185
00:07:33,110 --> 00:07:31,360
gillibrand amendment passed as part of a

186
00:07:34,790 --> 00:07:33,120
defense spending bill

187
00:07:36,629 --> 00:07:34,800
if you'd like a full rundown of what

188
00:07:38,870 --> 00:07:36,639
that amendment contains you can find

189
00:07:41,270 --> 00:07:38,880
that link in the episode notes but it

190
00:07:43,350 --> 00:07:41,280
basically comes down to this

191
00:07:45,749 --> 00:07:43,360
the amendment authorized the creation of

192
00:07:48,070 --> 00:07:45,759
a new ufo office within the departments

193
00:07:50,309 --> 00:07:48,080
of defense and national security to

194
00:07:53,350 --> 00:07:50,319
investigate these unidentified aerial

195
00:07:55,270 --> 00:07:53,360
phenomenon and for the first time ever

196
00:07:57,990 --> 00:07:55,280
every branch of the military and every

197
00:07:59,270 --> 00:07:58,000
intelligence agency must turn over all

198
00:08:00,710 --> 00:07:59,280
of their records regarding this

199
00:08:02,869 --> 00:08:00,720
phenomenon

200
00:08:05,110 --> 00:08:02,879
going back as far as they go

201
00:08:07,589 --> 00:08:05,120
and these findings must be presented to

202
00:08:10,390 --> 00:08:07,599
congress which has shown increasing

203
00:08:12,469 --> 00:08:10,400
bipartisan support and urgency around

204
00:08:14,309 --> 00:08:12,479
getting to the bottom of all of this

205
00:08:16,790 --> 00:08:14,319
the first report will be delivered in

206
00:08:19,029 --> 00:08:16,800
october of 2022

207
00:08:21,029 --> 00:08:19,039
could meaningful disclosure about human

208
00:08:22,950 --> 00:08:21,039
contact with non-human intelligence

209
00:08:24,869 --> 00:08:22,960
actually becoming

210
00:08:26,469 --> 00:08:24,879
i believe that it is

211
00:08:28,469 --> 00:08:26,479
i hope that it is

212
00:08:30,469 --> 00:08:28,479
and having recently gone through the

213
00:08:32,310 --> 00:08:30,479
profound dismantling process that comes

214
00:08:34,230 --> 00:08:32,320
with such a revelation

215
00:08:36,790 --> 00:08:34,240
the thing that seems the most important

216
00:08:39,110 --> 00:08:36,800
right now at this moment in history is

217
00:08:41,190 --> 00:08:39,120
to show up and contribute whatever small

218
00:08:43,350 --> 00:08:41,200
part i can in helping people to prepare

219
00:08:44,630 --> 00:08:43,360
for the coming paradigm shift

220
00:08:46,389 --> 00:08:44,640
to be clear

221
00:08:48,150 --> 00:08:46,399
i don't have all the answers

222
00:08:50,790 --> 00:08:48,160
i don't know if i can even say for sure

223
00:08:52,310 --> 00:08:50,800
that i have one answer

224
00:08:53,430 --> 00:08:52,320
i'm still grappling with all of this

225
00:08:55,269 --> 00:08:53,440
myself

226
00:08:56,870 --> 00:08:55,279
and i'm not so far gone that i'm not

227
00:08:58,870 --> 00:08:56,880
prepared for the possibility that i'm

228
00:09:00,550 --> 00:08:58,880
wrong about all of this

229
00:09:04,230 --> 00:09:00,560
if i've learned anything over the past

230
00:09:06,710 --> 00:09:04,240
year it's a deep intellectual humility

231
00:09:08,389 --> 00:09:06,720
but i've found myself in this place and

232
00:09:10,790 --> 00:09:08,399
there are a lot of other people here too

233
00:09:12,710 --> 00:09:10,800
who have come to the same conclusions

234
00:09:14,470 --> 00:09:12,720
and i don't think they're crazy

235
00:09:17,750 --> 00:09:14,480
and in talking with them i find a

236
00:09:20,470 --> 00:09:17,760
profound commonality a deep and aching

237
00:09:22,550 --> 00:09:20,480
humanity and the hope that if and when

238
00:09:24,790 --> 00:09:22,560
this paradigm shift does come

239
00:09:26,230 --> 00:09:24,800
when the dust settles humanity will be

240
00:09:29,110 --> 00:09:26,240
better for having undergone this

241
00:09:31,590 --> 00:09:29,120
transformation painful though it may be

242
00:09:33,829 --> 00:09:31,600
and so i want to keep talking to them

243
00:09:35,269 --> 00:09:33,839
and i want you to hear from them too

244
00:09:37,110 --> 00:09:35,279
i don't exactly know where this new

245
00:09:39,750 --> 00:09:37,120
podcast is going or what this will end

246
00:09:41,750 --> 00:09:39,760
up becoming but through all of this one

247
00:09:43,670 --> 00:09:41,760
message keeps coming to me in waves of

248
00:09:45,030 --> 00:09:43,680
synchronicity that damn near knock me

249
00:09:47,190 --> 00:09:45,040
off my feet

250
00:09:49,269 --> 00:09:47,200
and that message is that the answers to

251
00:09:51,430 --> 00:09:49,279
all that i seek will be found and

252
00:09:53,430 --> 00:09:51,440
connecting with others

253
00:09:55,110 --> 00:09:53,440
and so that's what i intend to do

254
00:09:56,710 --> 00:09:55,120
through a series of conversations with

255
00:09:59,030 --> 00:09:56,720
people who hold these and other

256
00:10:01,269 --> 00:09:59,040
extraordinary beliefs about how they

257
00:10:03,509 --> 00:10:01,279
found the entrance to this rabbit hole

258
00:10:05,190 --> 00:10:03,519
and how it has impacted their lives

259
00:10:06,310 --> 00:10:05,200
i hope to perhaps light the way for

260
00:10:08,230 --> 00:10:06,320
others

261
00:10:09,670 --> 00:10:08,240
i'm glad you're joining me i'm honestly

262
00:10:11,430 --> 00:10:09,680
thrilled that you're here

263
00:10:13,590 --> 00:10:11,440
so let's do this

264
00:10:15,750 --> 00:10:13,600
in this first episode of the rabbit hole

265
00:10:17,670 --> 00:10:15,760
conversations i spoke with certified

266
00:10:19,990 --> 00:10:17,680
therapist eric schlemmer

267
00:10:22,550 --> 00:10:20,000
eric and i it turns out have taken very

268
00:10:24,470 --> 00:10:22,560
similar paths over the last year finding

269
00:10:27,190 --> 00:10:24,480
ourselves holding beliefs that up until

270
00:10:29,190 --> 00:10:27,200
recently would have sounded impossible

271
00:10:30,710 --> 00:10:29,200
and through his work as a therapist and

272
00:10:33,590 --> 00:10:30,720
his experience with helping people

273
00:10:35,430 --> 00:10:33,600
process trauma and major life changes he

274
00:10:37,350 --> 00:10:35,440
hopes to help the growing community of

275
00:10:39,910 --> 00:10:37,360
people whose direct contact with this

276
00:10:42,150 --> 00:10:39,920
phenomenon has upended their lives

277
00:10:44,230 --> 00:10:42,160
i really enjoyed this conversation and i

278
00:10:47,269 --> 00:10:44,240
hope you will too

279
00:10:50,110 --> 00:10:47,279
[Music]

280
00:10:59,990 --> 00:10:50,120
is

281
00:11:05,590 --> 00:11:02,710
right hi everybody um i am here with our

282
00:11:08,630 --> 00:11:05,600
guest eric schlemmer he is a licensed

283
00:11:10,949 --> 00:11:08,640
therapist out of colorado springs um and

284
00:11:12,470 --> 00:11:10,959
he's working at a practice called willow

285
00:11:14,790 --> 00:11:12,480
creek wellness

286
00:11:17,750 --> 00:11:14,800
and the reason i'm talking to uh eric

287
00:11:20,389 --> 00:11:17,760
today is that he is a licensed therapist

288
00:11:22,870 --> 00:11:20,399
who works specifically with experiencers

289
00:11:24,230 --> 00:11:22,880
and so i had a lot of questions so uh

290
00:11:25,430 --> 00:11:24,240
welcome to the show eric it's great to

291
00:11:27,509 --> 00:11:25,440
have you

292
00:11:29,430 --> 00:11:27,519
thanks for having me good to be here

293
00:11:31,829 --> 00:11:29,440
awesome awesome so

294
00:11:33,509 --> 00:11:31,839
um first of all just to clarify uh for

295
00:11:35,590 --> 00:11:33,519
the listeners so you work with

296
00:11:37,750 --> 00:11:35,600
experiencers can you define exactly what

297
00:11:39,590 --> 00:11:37,760
that means like do you work specifically

298
00:11:42,710 --> 00:11:39,600
with people who've witnessed uaps or how

299
00:11:44,230 --> 00:11:42,720
do you define that

300
00:11:46,470 --> 00:11:44,240
well uh

301
00:11:49,990 --> 00:11:46,480
first off i'm a therapist who would like

302
00:11:51,750 --> 00:11:50,000
to work with experiencers

303
00:11:53,430 --> 00:11:51,760
this uh

304
00:11:56,310 --> 00:11:53,440
opening up uh

305
00:11:58,470 --> 00:11:56,320
to specifically solicit for experiencers

306
00:12:00,629 --> 00:11:58,480
to see me is a is a brand new thing for

307
00:12:01,910 --> 00:12:00,639
me i've been practicing almost three

308
00:12:03,990 --> 00:12:01,920
years but

309
00:12:05,750 --> 00:12:04,000
created my twitter account and kind of

310
00:12:08,230 --> 00:12:05,760
took on the uap

311
00:12:10,870 --> 00:12:08,240
therapist perspana only about

312
00:12:13,509 --> 00:12:10,880
two months ago so as far as i know i

313
00:12:16,150 --> 00:12:13,519
haven't worked with any yet uh but the

314
00:12:18,230 --> 00:12:16,160
invitation is of course there

315
00:12:20,710 --> 00:12:18,240
uh that's a good question wood is an

316
00:12:23,509 --> 00:12:20,720
experiencer i've seen

317
00:12:26,069 --> 00:12:23,519
a bunch of different definitions and

318
00:12:28,389 --> 00:12:26,079
none of them are wrong it's however

319
00:12:31,670 --> 00:12:28,399
somebody wants to perceive it

320
00:12:32,710 --> 00:12:31,680
i would regard it as anybody who has

321
00:12:35,269 --> 00:12:32,720
seen

322
00:12:37,110 --> 00:12:35,279
or had some kind of interaction

323
00:12:39,670 --> 00:12:37,120
with a uap

324
00:12:41,350 --> 00:12:39,680
or at least has a very strong suspicion

325
00:12:44,150 --> 00:12:41,360
that they saw something

326
00:12:46,230 --> 00:12:44,160
um now i think i'm going to end up

327
00:12:48,470 --> 00:12:46,240
working with people who aren't

328
00:12:50,629 --> 00:12:48,480
experiencers maybe somebody like myself

329
00:12:52,949 --> 00:12:50,639
so i'm not experiencer i haven't seen

330
00:12:55,030 --> 00:12:52,959
anything weird no reason to believe i

331
00:12:56,790 --> 00:12:55,040
was ever around a uap

332
00:12:58,310 --> 00:12:56,800
but why i'm very interested in this

333
00:12:59,829 --> 00:12:58,320
field is this is

334
00:13:00,629 --> 00:12:59,839
i think very big things are coming our

335
00:13:02,629 --> 00:13:00,639
way

336
00:13:04,150 --> 00:13:02,639
uh the cat's out of the bag i was on a

337
00:13:05,590 --> 00:13:04,160
podcast recently i said this whole

338
00:13:08,790 --> 00:13:05,600
weather balloon stick

339
00:13:11,269 --> 00:13:08,800
that died like 20 years ago and so we

340
00:13:12,389 --> 00:13:11,279
have all this evidence coming out

341
00:13:14,629 --> 00:13:12,399
and

342
00:13:16,870 --> 00:13:14,639
i have good reason to believe that as

343
00:13:20,389 --> 00:13:16,880
more people examine the evidence they're

344
00:13:22,389 --> 00:13:20,399
going to become very worrisome and very

345
00:13:23,990 --> 00:13:22,399
anxious from it

346
00:13:26,069 --> 00:13:24,000
so will i end up working with

347
00:13:28,389 --> 00:13:26,079
experiencers

348
00:13:30,069 --> 00:13:28,399
maybe i mean coral springs is a perfect

349
00:13:32,870 --> 00:13:30,079
place to be for it right we have the

350
00:13:34,629 --> 00:13:32,880
space force and norad and the air force

351
00:13:36,870 --> 00:13:34,639
academy and a bunch of other

352
00:13:40,550 --> 00:13:36,880
military complexes out here

353
00:13:42,310 --> 00:13:40,560
yet i'm equally interested in people who

354
00:13:43,189 --> 00:13:42,320
may come to our practice and just say

355
00:13:45,670 --> 00:13:43,199
you know

356
00:13:47,269 --> 00:13:45,680
i've seen all these videos i have been

357
00:13:49,590 --> 00:13:47,279
listening all the podcasts i read a

358
00:13:51,590 --> 00:13:49,600
couple books and

359
00:13:53,750 --> 00:13:51,600
this stuff's crazy and i'm starting to

360
00:13:55,590 --> 00:13:53,760
get worried so i'm welcome to work with

361
00:13:57,350 --> 00:13:55,600
uh both populations

362
00:13:59,030 --> 00:13:57,360
awesome no that's that's a fantastic

363
00:14:00,870 --> 00:13:59,040
point and i know uh there are a couple

364
00:14:03,030 --> 00:14:00,880
of reasons i wanted to chat with you and

365
00:14:04,710 --> 00:14:03,040
you know one was that it seems like from

366
00:14:06,550 --> 00:14:04,720
the little chat that we had that we're

367
00:14:08,870 --> 00:14:06,560
both kind of newer to this topic like

368
00:14:10,550 --> 00:14:08,880
within the last you know year or so

369
00:14:11,829 --> 00:14:10,560
um and i think for both of us it seems

370
00:14:13,269 --> 00:14:11,839
like we're both like from you know

371
00:14:15,110 --> 00:14:13,279
taking it from different angles but the

372
00:14:17,430 --> 00:14:15,120
question of just like how do you

373
00:14:19,030 --> 00:14:17,440
how do we help people through this

374
00:14:21,189 --> 00:14:19,040
transition like how do we help people

375
00:14:22,310 --> 00:14:21,199
get ready for it so how did that start

376
00:14:23,750 --> 00:14:22,320
for you like what was sort of the

377
00:14:25,269 --> 00:14:23,760
beginning of that

378
00:14:26,710 --> 00:14:25,279
of that journey where you started to

379
00:14:29,110 --> 00:14:26,720
really say man i think there's something

380
00:14:33,910 --> 00:14:31,350
well it's funny i've been telling people

381
00:14:35,189 --> 00:14:33,920
it was when i saw the bob lazar video on

382
00:14:37,990 --> 00:14:35,199
joe rogan

383
00:14:40,150 --> 00:14:38,000
in june 2019 but

384
00:14:42,550 --> 00:14:40,160
it was weird how easily we forget things

385
00:14:44,710 --> 00:14:42,560
i was in my kitchen a couple weeks ago

386
00:14:47,110 --> 00:14:44,720
and i said wait a minute i think i met

387
00:14:49,910 --> 00:14:47,120
stanton friedman and stanton freeman

388
00:14:52,470 --> 00:14:49,920
since deceased was a nuclear physicist

389
00:14:54,629 --> 00:14:52,480
and he was kind of the big name

390
00:14:55,750 --> 00:14:54,639
of what they called ufos back in the 80s

391
00:14:57,910 --> 00:14:55,760
and 90s

392
00:14:59,910 --> 00:14:57,920
early 2000s and i actually saw him speak

393
00:15:02,629 --> 00:14:59,920
at the university this is like

394
00:15:04,389 --> 00:15:02,639
21 years ago i totally forgot about it

395
00:15:05,990 --> 00:15:04,399
so i must have had an interest back then

396
00:15:07,590 --> 00:15:06,000
or i wouldn't have paid the five bucks

397
00:15:09,750 --> 00:15:07,600
which was a lot for a broke college

398
00:15:12,150 --> 00:15:09,760
student in 2000

399
00:15:14,550 --> 00:15:12,160
to go see stanton friedman speak so i

400
00:15:17,670 --> 00:15:14,560
always had an interest in it but it

401
00:15:20,310 --> 00:15:17,680
really is the bob lazar interview with

402
00:15:23,350 --> 00:15:20,320
joe rogan again i believe that was june

403
00:15:25,829 --> 00:15:23,360
20th 2019

404
00:15:28,389 --> 00:15:25,839
and anybody who's familiar with a lazar

405
00:15:29,990 --> 00:15:28,399
story some people think it's total bs

406
00:15:33,990 --> 00:15:30,000
some people think it's

407
00:15:36,710 --> 00:15:34,000
gospel i'm leaning more towards probably

408
00:15:39,189 --> 00:15:36,720
true i'm not 100 convinced but i'm

409
00:15:40,470 --> 00:15:39,199
between probably and certainly

410
00:15:42,310 --> 00:15:40,480
and

411
00:15:43,749 --> 00:15:42,320
he was just saying some fantastic stuff

412
00:15:44,949 --> 00:15:43,759
so i watched that interview a couple

413
00:15:47,829 --> 00:15:44,959
times

414
00:15:50,310 --> 00:15:47,839
and then commander david fravor retired

415
00:15:52,790 --> 00:15:50,320
and he came out and talked about the tic

416
00:15:55,590 --> 00:15:52,800
tac incident and then we had three navy

417
00:15:58,150 --> 00:15:55,600
videos leaked he was on 60 minutes he

418
00:15:58,949 --> 00:15:58,160
was on lex friedman podcast

419
00:16:01,509 --> 00:15:58,959
and

420
00:16:03,509 --> 00:16:01,519
david fravor is

421
00:16:06,470 --> 00:16:03,519
a man of his word i mean he's a high

422
00:16:08,470 --> 00:16:06,480
caliber military man and i don't know

423
00:16:10,550 --> 00:16:08,480
much about pilots but i've been told i'm

424
00:16:12,230 --> 00:16:10,560
good authority that he's

425
00:16:14,230 --> 00:16:12,240
he at the time he could have been the

426
00:16:15,269 --> 00:16:14,240
best pilot in the world i mean just an

427
00:16:16,949 --> 00:16:15,279
amazing

428
00:16:18,150 --> 00:16:16,959
guy and a lifer

429
00:16:19,670 --> 00:16:18,160
so

430
00:16:20,870 --> 00:16:19,680
i started listing his story and i was

431
00:16:22,389 --> 00:16:20,880
like

432
00:16:24,389 --> 00:16:22,399
wow this

433
00:16:26,870 --> 00:16:24,399
is totally legitimate especially

434
00:16:28,069 --> 00:16:26,880
compared to lazar simply because of his

435
00:16:30,629 --> 00:16:28,079
credentials

436
00:16:32,710 --> 00:16:30,639
and that really started my journey into

437
00:16:35,110 --> 00:16:32,720
uap research um

438
00:16:37,430 --> 00:16:35,120
probably coming up on a year now

439
00:16:39,430 --> 00:16:37,440
and you know when you

440
00:16:42,069 --> 00:16:39,440
when you listen to

441
00:16:44,949 --> 00:16:42,079
one podcast episode or you read one

442
00:16:46,870 --> 00:16:44,959
layperson article or read one book

443
00:16:48,949 --> 00:16:46,880
and lou elizondo is kind of notorious

444
00:16:51,030 --> 00:16:48,959
for this like you just can't watch one

445
00:16:53,110 --> 00:16:51,040
because it maybe drops a hand or a

446
00:16:55,749 --> 00:16:53,120
little breadcrumb here and you have to

447
00:16:57,110 --> 00:16:55,759
look at all the material all the data

448
00:16:59,670 --> 00:16:57,120
all the evidence

449
00:17:01,829 --> 00:16:59,680
and start piecing this story together

450
00:17:03,990 --> 00:17:01,839
yourself and i think most of your

451
00:17:06,390 --> 00:17:04,000
listeners and viewers would agree

452
00:17:08,390 --> 00:17:06,400
there's no just holy grail you're not

453
00:17:09,669 --> 00:17:08,400
not even ross coldheart's book which is

454
00:17:11,510 --> 00:17:09,679
a really good book

455
00:17:13,350 --> 00:17:11,520
that covers just a sliver of what we

456
00:17:14,150 --> 00:17:13,360
might talk about tonight

457
00:17:16,150 --> 00:17:14,160
so

458
00:17:18,230 --> 00:17:16,160
at this point

459
00:17:21,029 --> 00:17:18,240
the evidence and the data and the

460
00:17:22,949 --> 00:17:21,039
testimony is completely overwhelming

461
00:17:25,429 --> 00:17:22,959
there's no way

462
00:17:27,110 --> 00:17:25,439
this is not real

463
00:17:28,789 --> 00:17:27,120
and it's interesting i actually tried to

464
00:17:31,510 --> 00:17:28,799
get involved in the field about a year

465
00:17:33,590 --> 00:17:31,520
ago i contacted some research

466
00:17:35,990 --> 00:17:33,600
organizations

467
00:17:38,070 --> 00:17:36,000
like uap expeditions

468
00:17:39,669 --> 00:17:38,080
uh the galileo project

469
00:17:42,470 --> 00:17:39,679
and i was like hey i'm a pretty smart

470
00:17:44,230 --> 00:17:42,480
guy can i help in any way and they said

471
00:17:47,270 --> 00:17:44,240
well yeah what do you know about

472
00:17:49,909 --> 00:17:47,280
propulsion and physics and and my answer

473
00:17:51,350 --> 00:17:49,919
was nothing

474
00:17:54,630 --> 00:17:51,360
and they said hey look eric seemed like

475
00:17:57,350 --> 00:17:54,640
a nice guy but we we really need some

476
00:17:59,350 --> 00:17:57,360
uh qualified experts to help us out

477
00:18:01,669 --> 00:17:59,360
i said well hell what am i good at

478
00:18:03,590 --> 00:18:01,679
i'm good at therapy so here i am i stick

479
00:18:05,669 --> 00:18:03,600
to what i know

480
00:18:08,070 --> 00:18:05,679
i'm the same i wish i could go back and

481
00:18:10,470 --> 00:18:08,080
study physics or you know propulsion

482
00:18:13,590 --> 00:18:10,480
systems or something like that but i'm a

483
00:18:15,190 --> 00:18:13,600
content creator so here we are you know

484
00:18:17,590 --> 00:18:15,200
but i think there's plenty of work to go

485
00:18:19,270 --> 00:18:17,600
around uh for all of us there's a lot a

486
00:18:20,789 --> 00:18:19,280
lot happening so

487
00:18:22,230 --> 00:18:20,799
um as a

488
00:18:23,909 --> 00:18:22,240
as a therapist

489
00:18:26,549 --> 00:18:23,919
what do you make of

490
00:18:28,789 --> 00:18:26,559
kind of the broad spectrum of

491
00:18:31,029 --> 00:18:28,799
of responses that people have to these

492
00:18:32,870 --> 00:18:31,039
kinds of experiences it seems like for

493
00:18:35,669 --> 00:18:32,880
some people it's really really positive

494
00:18:38,150 --> 00:18:35,679
for some people it's really traumatizing

495
00:18:39,270 --> 00:18:38,160
um i'm interested too that like you know

496
00:18:41,990 --> 00:18:39,280
some people

497
00:18:43,590 --> 00:18:42,000
they may have just seen a uap from you

498
00:18:45,350 --> 00:18:43,600
know a relatively short distance and

499
00:18:47,590 --> 00:18:45,360
that seems to have like an enormous

500
00:18:49,430 --> 00:18:47,600
impact so what do you just make of that

501
00:18:50,470 --> 00:18:49,440
as a therapist

502
00:18:52,070 --> 00:18:50,480
um

503
00:18:54,870 --> 00:18:52,080
yeah and you mentioned a couple ways to

504
00:18:57,350 --> 00:18:54,880
react to it and it's it's those two and

505
00:18:59,990 --> 00:18:57,360
you name it everything in between

506
00:19:01,270 --> 00:19:00,000
so i know travis walton he was involved

507
00:19:03,350 --> 00:19:01,280
i don't know him personally i know of

508
00:19:05,669 --> 00:19:03,360
the travis walton story

509
00:19:06,950 --> 00:19:05,679
where he was a lager in snowflake

510
00:19:09,430 --> 00:19:06,960
arizona

511
00:19:11,909 --> 00:19:09,440
and that was made into a very popular

512
00:19:14,310 --> 00:19:11,919
movie and a book fire in the sky

513
00:19:15,909 --> 00:19:14,320
and somebody asked him

514
00:19:17,270 --> 00:19:15,919
something along the lines of do you wish

515
00:19:18,710 --> 00:19:17,280
it ever happened

516
00:19:20,070 --> 00:19:18,720
he said no

517
00:19:22,150 --> 00:19:20,080
and then i believe they asked him a

518
00:19:24,150 --> 00:19:22,160
follow-up question i said why not and he

519
00:19:26,789 --> 00:19:24,160
experiences symptoms that are consistent

520
00:19:29,350 --> 00:19:26,799
with post-traumatic stress disorder

521
00:19:31,270 --> 00:19:29,360
so i think he's thinking

522
00:19:34,230 --> 00:19:31,280
you know

523
00:19:37,510 --> 00:19:34,240
i i wish i just never did it i i mean

524
00:19:38,390 --> 00:19:37,520
it's just so much to experience and so

525
00:19:40,470 --> 00:19:38,400
suddenly

526
00:19:42,950 --> 00:19:40,480
if his story is true and i do believe it

527
00:19:44,630 --> 00:19:42,960
is true or at least i'm leaning on the

528
00:19:46,710 --> 00:19:44,640
probably true

529
00:19:48,230 --> 00:19:46,720
uh scale here

530
00:19:51,190 --> 00:19:48,240
so it can be

531
00:19:54,710 --> 00:19:51,200
quite traumatic even if nothing

532
00:19:56,710 --> 00:19:54,720
harmful is done to you it's just i mean

533
00:19:59,990 --> 00:19:56,720
to put it mildly

534
00:20:02,230 --> 00:20:00,000
a big deal right it's a big experience

535
00:20:05,110 --> 00:20:02,240
other people so i know somebody who is

536
00:20:06,630 --> 00:20:05,120
an experiencer and he's shared quite a

537
00:20:08,870 --> 00:20:06,640
bit with me

538
00:20:10,950 --> 00:20:08,880
and if i if i mention this person's name

539
00:20:11,590 --> 00:20:10,960
you would probably definitely recognize

540
00:20:12,950 --> 00:20:11,600
him

541
00:20:16,070 --> 00:20:12,960
and um

542
00:20:19,669 --> 00:20:16,080
his has been nothing but uh

543
00:20:21,909 --> 00:20:19,679
he describes him as benevolent

544
00:20:24,870 --> 00:20:21,919
and he has this relationship with

545
00:20:26,710 --> 00:20:24,880
whoever these uap occupants are where he

546
00:20:28,950 --> 00:20:26,720
feels he's tasked

547
00:20:30,230 --> 00:20:28,960
to make the world a better place and to

548
00:20:33,750 --> 00:20:30,240
help

549
00:20:36,789 --> 00:20:33,760
um so it does run the gamut the three

550
00:20:39,029 --> 00:20:36,799
most common mental illnesses i work with

551
00:20:40,870 --> 00:20:39,039
clients on in this office

552
00:20:42,549 --> 00:20:40,880
is uh anxiety

553
00:20:44,310 --> 00:20:42,559
post-traumatic stress disorder and

554
00:20:46,630 --> 00:20:44,320
depression

555
00:20:49,029 --> 00:20:46,640
so if somebody's going to have

556
00:20:51,590 --> 00:20:49,039
a less than ideal

557
00:20:53,510 --> 00:20:51,600
experience with the uap maybe they were

558
00:20:55,669 --> 00:20:53,520
brought on board maybe they just saw

559
00:20:59,029 --> 00:20:55,679
something whizz by

560
00:21:01,350 --> 00:20:59,039
it's probably going to be anxiety

561
00:21:03,669 --> 00:21:01,360
because anxiety is about the future okay

562
00:21:05,190 --> 00:21:03,679
it's almost always about the future and

563
00:21:07,510 --> 00:21:05,200
so if you had

564
00:21:11,110 --> 00:21:07,520
a less than pleasant or just

565
00:21:13,909 --> 00:21:11,120
overwhelming experience around a uap

566
00:21:15,990 --> 00:21:13,919
the main thought would probably be

567
00:21:17,990 --> 00:21:16,000
i think it's going to happen again or

568
00:21:19,669 --> 00:21:18,000
i'm fearful that it's going to happen

569
00:21:21,590 --> 00:21:19,679
again or you know what

570
00:21:23,190 --> 00:21:21,600
i saw it once i really don't want it to

571
00:21:24,549 --> 00:21:23,200
happen again right so if you had that

572
00:21:25,990 --> 00:21:24,559
negative interaction it would probably

573
00:21:28,470 --> 00:21:26,000
be anxiety

574
00:21:30,070 --> 00:21:28,480
uh stories like travis walton uh

575
00:21:32,630 --> 00:21:30,080
post-traumatic stress disorder again

576
00:21:34,549 --> 00:21:32,640
about the future so something terrible

577
00:21:36,549 --> 00:21:34,559
happened and i hope it doesn't happen

578
00:21:39,430 --> 00:21:36,559
again so for example i have two clients

579
00:21:41,190 --> 00:21:39,440
right now recovering from car accidents

580
00:21:42,950 --> 00:21:41,200
and we're trying to get them back on the

581
00:21:45,669 --> 00:21:42,960
horse so to speak they're

582
00:21:47,350 --> 00:21:45,679
one is terrified of driving and the

583
00:21:48,950 --> 00:21:47,360
other's been working on it for a year

584
00:21:51,190 --> 00:21:48,960
through exposure therapy and now she

585
00:21:54,310 --> 00:21:51,200
could drive and be okay

586
00:21:56,710 --> 00:21:54,320
depression is typically about the past

587
00:21:57,830 --> 00:21:56,720
so i mean could you be depressed with a

588
00:21:59,190 --> 00:21:57,840
uap

589
00:22:02,070 --> 00:21:59,200
interaction

590
00:22:03,190 --> 00:22:02,080
i guess but i just i'm not anticipating

591
00:22:04,789 --> 00:22:03,200
that to be

592
00:22:07,190 --> 00:22:04,799
a common mental illness or at least

593
00:22:09,029 --> 00:22:07,200
symptoms related to that and you can

594
00:22:11,029 --> 00:22:09,039
tell by the language just like with

595
00:22:12,950 --> 00:22:11,039
anxiety so i'll ask a client what are

596
00:22:15,190 --> 00:22:12,960
you upset about

597
00:22:16,710 --> 00:22:15,200
the answers are always in past tense i

598
00:22:18,549 --> 00:22:16,720
lost my job

599
00:22:20,470 --> 00:22:18,559
my grandfather died

600
00:22:23,830 --> 00:22:20,480
my wife left me

601
00:22:26,870 --> 00:22:23,840
maybe it's to present day i'm really not

602
00:22:28,390 --> 00:22:26,880
happy with how life turned out

603
00:22:29,669 --> 00:22:28,400
but we have a lot of trouble living in

604
00:22:31,350 --> 00:22:29,679
the present

605
00:22:33,590 --> 00:22:31,360
i have a lot of trouble maybe you have a

606
00:22:36,630 --> 00:22:33,600
lot of trouble it's just not our thing

607
00:22:38,549 --> 00:22:36,640
we're either depressed about the past

608
00:22:41,270 --> 00:22:38,559
or anxious about the future and

609
00:22:44,310 --> 00:22:41,280
sometimes you can't win either way

610
00:22:47,190 --> 00:22:44,320
so when it comes to uap experiencers

611
00:22:48,470 --> 00:22:47,200
uh if it if it was not a pleasant

612
00:22:52,789 --> 00:22:48,480
experience

613
00:22:54,870 --> 00:22:52,799
there's a chance for post-traumatic

614
00:22:56,310 --> 00:22:54,880
stress disorder it's not guaranteed like

615
00:22:58,310 --> 00:22:56,320
you said a lot of people have a fine

616
00:22:59,990 --> 00:22:58,320
interaction and they process it very

617
00:23:01,590 --> 00:23:00,000
well these are kind of the outlying

618
00:23:03,190 --> 00:23:01,600
cases

619
00:23:04,390 --> 00:23:03,200
yeah absolutely

620
00:23:11,029 --> 00:23:04,400
i wonder

621
00:23:13,350 --> 00:23:11,039
having the experience and not being able

622
00:23:15,510 --> 00:23:13,360
to share it with people like even if you

623
00:23:17,110 --> 00:23:15,520
tell them you have the stigma but even

624
00:23:19,350 --> 00:23:17,120
if you tell them and they like really

625
00:23:20,390 --> 00:23:19,360
take it well you know i hear so many

626
00:23:23,270 --> 00:23:20,400
times when people are talking to

627
00:23:24,950 --> 00:23:23,280
experiencers they say well i i believe

628
00:23:26,789 --> 00:23:24,960
that you believe it and i think that's

629
00:23:28,950 --> 00:23:26,799
like they feel like they're being nice

630
00:23:30,789 --> 00:23:28,960
but i feel like in some ways that would

631
00:23:33,270 --> 00:23:30,799
almost be the worst thing that someone

632
00:23:35,190 --> 00:23:33,280
could say to me you know i would almost

633
00:23:37,270 --> 00:23:35,200
rather say i would almost rather that

634
00:23:38,710 --> 00:23:37,280
they thought i was lying then that they

635
00:23:40,870 --> 00:23:38,720
thought that

636
00:23:41,909 --> 00:23:40,880
they believed that i believe it you know

637
00:23:43,909 --> 00:23:41,919
like that's

638
00:23:45,669 --> 00:23:43,919
that um having people question your

639
00:23:47,669 --> 00:23:45,679
sanity i feel like would be very

640
00:23:49,669 --> 00:23:47,679
difficult

641
00:23:50,630 --> 00:23:49,679
yeah and i think that is the biggest

642
00:23:52,230 --> 00:23:50,640
problem

643
00:23:54,310 --> 00:23:52,240
is this

644
00:23:55,590 --> 00:23:54,320
incredibly obnoxious

645
00:23:57,830 --> 00:23:55,600
stigma

646
00:23:58,710 --> 00:23:57,840
and disqualifying

647
00:24:01,350 --> 00:23:58,720
people

648
00:24:02,710 --> 00:24:01,360
where something definitely

649
00:24:05,029 --> 00:24:02,720
happened

650
00:24:07,190 --> 00:24:05,039
i was recently talking to another

651
00:24:09,110 --> 00:24:07,200
therapist and uh some people are

652
00:24:11,350 --> 00:24:09,120
listening and on our conversation it was

653
00:24:12,870 --> 00:24:11,360
a twitter talk space

654
00:24:15,269 --> 00:24:12,880
and i said if i was an experienced do

655
00:24:16,390 --> 00:24:15,279
you think i go to therapist hell no

656
00:24:18,789 --> 00:24:16,400
no way

657
00:24:21,830 --> 00:24:18,799
you know unless i could find somebody

658
00:24:25,190 --> 00:24:21,840
maybe like me who was well educated in

659
00:24:26,310 --> 00:24:25,200
uap history and modern uap evidence

660
00:24:28,390 --> 00:24:26,320
because i know

661
00:24:30,230 --> 00:24:28,400
it's real right

662
00:24:31,909 --> 00:24:30,240
and it's just

663
00:24:34,390 --> 00:24:31,919
you know not many i'm a pretty laid-back

664
00:24:35,350 --> 00:24:34,400
guy not many things annoy me but this

665
00:24:38,310 --> 00:24:35,360
whole

666
00:24:42,070 --> 00:24:38,320
it's a mental illness i

667
00:24:44,310 --> 00:24:42,080
i think you think you saw what you saw

668
00:24:47,190 --> 00:24:44,320
it's just so condescending

669
00:24:48,310 --> 00:24:47,200
and childish and outdated

670
00:24:49,750 --> 00:24:48,320
i mean

671
00:24:51,190 --> 00:24:49,760
you know it's like saying if somebody

672
00:24:52,470 --> 00:24:51,200
came to me with post-traumatic stress

673
00:24:54,789 --> 00:24:52,480
disorder because they were in an

674
00:24:56,149 --> 00:24:54,799
avalanche here in colorado and i'm just

675
00:24:58,149 --> 00:24:56,159
like

676
00:25:00,470 --> 00:24:58,159
i think you thought you were in the

677
00:25:03,669 --> 00:25:00,480
avalanche i mean that's how ridiculous

678
00:25:05,750 --> 00:25:03,679
it is again due to all the evidence and

679
00:25:09,590 --> 00:25:05,760
data that has come out

680
00:25:11,190 --> 00:25:09,600
since i've kind of build myself uh build

681
00:25:13,029 --> 00:25:11,200
myself as

682
00:25:14,630 --> 00:25:13,039
somebody who would like to work with

683
00:25:16,230 --> 00:25:14,640
experiencers

684
00:25:18,549 --> 00:25:16,240
i've had people say some really

685
00:25:20,789 --> 00:25:18,559
obnoxious stuff to me okay so i'll give

686
00:25:24,149 --> 00:25:20,799
you a great example

687
00:25:27,830 --> 00:25:24,159
so i have my twitter page and my

688
00:25:30,230 --> 00:25:27,840
instagram page and both handles are uap

689
00:25:31,590 --> 00:25:30,240
therapist okay

690
00:25:34,789 --> 00:25:31,600
and

691
00:25:35,909 --> 00:25:34,799
my first post on the twitter account was

692
00:25:37,590 --> 00:25:35,919
hey

693
00:25:39,990 --> 00:25:37,600
you've probably never heard of me i'm

694
00:25:43,590 --> 00:25:40,000
this guy in colorado i'm on a therapist

695
00:25:45,590 --> 00:25:43,600
and i'm really interested in uaps and if

696
00:25:48,310 --> 00:25:45,600
you come and talk to me

697
00:25:50,390 --> 00:25:48,320
i'm not going to disqualify you right i

698
00:25:53,590 --> 00:25:50,400
i'm going to start off believing you

699
00:25:56,549 --> 00:25:53,600
because i have no reason to not do that

700
00:26:00,870 --> 00:25:56,559
i stated some of my credentials

701
00:26:03,669 --> 00:26:00,880
and the very first response i got was

702
00:26:08,149 --> 00:26:03,679
are you effing

703
00:26:09,990 --> 00:26:08,159
actually done something useful with your

704
00:26:12,230 --> 00:26:10,000
degree

705
00:26:13,430 --> 00:26:12,240
the very first

706
00:26:15,110 --> 00:26:13,440
response

707
00:26:16,230 --> 00:26:15,120
and i've gotten other

708
00:26:17,830 --> 00:26:16,240
little

709
00:26:19,110 --> 00:26:17,840
stabs

710
00:26:21,669 --> 00:26:19,120
that

711
00:26:24,070 --> 00:26:21,679
i'm probably a lousy therapist

712
00:26:25,350 --> 00:26:24,080
because i'm giving in to conspiracy

713
00:26:27,669 --> 00:26:25,360
theories

714
00:26:31,190 --> 00:26:27,679
i'm wasting my time

715
00:26:32,870 --> 00:26:31,200
and i'm a rube i've been duped

716
00:26:35,990 --> 00:26:32,880
by people who say

717
00:26:37,029 --> 00:26:36,000
that they are experiencers

718
00:26:39,830 --> 00:26:37,039
and

719
00:26:42,230 --> 00:26:39,840
it's so if i'm

720
00:26:44,870 --> 00:26:42,240
billing myself as a highly qualified

721
00:26:47,269 --> 00:26:44,880
therapist who's done his homework and

722
00:26:49,430 --> 00:26:47,279
that's the response i get what do you

723
00:26:50,789 --> 00:26:49,440
think uap experiencers

724
00:26:52,470 --> 00:26:50,799
are being told

725
00:26:56,070 --> 00:26:52,480
right they're being told that they're

726
00:26:57,750 --> 00:26:56,080
crazy it's a mental illness etc the

727
00:26:59,269 --> 00:26:57,760
people saying this have absolutely no

728
00:27:01,190 --> 00:26:59,279
idea what they're talking about for two

729
00:27:04,710 --> 00:27:01,200
reasons okay

730
00:27:06,789 --> 00:27:04,720
so one they know nothing of uap history

731
00:27:08,630 --> 00:27:06,799
and modern uap evidence

732
00:27:11,029 --> 00:27:08,640
all right so they'll be like oh the

733
00:27:14,710 --> 00:27:11,039
nimitz encounter in 2004 with david

734
00:27:17,110 --> 00:27:14,720
fravor it was just a silver balloon

735
00:27:19,590 --> 00:27:17,120
and it's like dude a silver balloon

736
00:27:21,350 --> 00:27:19,600
doesn't descend from 80 000 feet to

737
00:27:23,350 --> 00:27:21,360
twenty eight thousand and then go to sea

738
00:27:24,870 --> 00:27:23,360
level and point seven eight seconds

739
00:27:26,870 --> 00:27:24,880
i've never heard a balloon like that

740
00:27:28,630 --> 00:27:26,880
right so they're totally ignorant on

741
00:27:29,990 --> 00:27:28,640
that they're also totally ignorant on

742
00:27:31,269 --> 00:27:30,000
mental illnesses

743
00:27:34,070 --> 00:27:31,279
so these are the people who go on

744
00:27:36,789 --> 00:27:34,080
wikipedia and type in schizophrenia

745
00:27:38,630 --> 00:27:36,799
they see that one of the symptoms

746
00:27:39,830 --> 00:27:38,640
maybe people see things that you and i

747
00:27:41,990 --> 00:27:39,840
don't see

748
00:27:45,909 --> 00:27:42,000
and they're like case closed they have

749
00:27:47,510 --> 00:27:45,919
schizophrenia and it was a hallucination

750
00:27:50,149 --> 00:27:47,520
but then i work with people with

751
00:27:51,909 --> 00:27:50,159
schizophrenia i worked in a secure

752
00:27:53,510 --> 00:27:51,919
psychiatric hospital in upstate new york

753
00:27:55,029 --> 00:27:53,520
where people were too unstable to go to

754
00:27:56,230 --> 00:27:55,039
jail so you know they're unstable

755
00:27:57,590 --> 00:27:56,240
because there's some pretty unstable

756
00:28:00,149 --> 00:27:57,600
people in jail

757
00:28:02,230 --> 00:28:00,159
that's not schizophrenia right nobody's

758
00:28:04,149 --> 00:28:02,240
been able to articulate so somebody says

759
00:28:05,750 --> 00:28:04,159
oh it's a mental illness you know they

760
00:28:07,669 --> 00:28:05,760
were hallucinating

761
00:28:09,830 --> 00:28:07,679
i'll just come back with so they saw

762
00:28:11,430 --> 00:28:09,840
this but they can hold down a job

763
00:28:13,590 --> 00:28:11,440
because people with schizophrenia cannot

764
00:28:15,990 --> 00:28:13,600
hold down a job in general

765
00:28:17,990 --> 00:28:16,000
why are they just seeing uaps why aren't

766
00:28:20,389 --> 00:28:18,000
they seeing dragons right why aren't

767
00:28:21,590 --> 00:28:20,399
they hearing people talking to them when

768
00:28:24,230 --> 00:28:21,600
they're at a restaurant with their

769
00:28:27,590 --> 00:28:24,240
friends it doesn't add up so it's a

770
00:28:29,669 --> 00:28:27,600
combination of arrogance and ignorance

771
00:28:31,669 --> 00:28:29,679
yeah absolutely

772
00:28:33,269 --> 00:28:31,679
i think um something i wanted to ask you

773
00:28:35,669 --> 00:28:33,279
about is that i know

774
00:28:38,389 --> 00:28:35,679
just as not really an experience or i

775
00:28:41,190 --> 00:28:38,399
perhaps saw a uap when i was like 12 it

776
00:28:44,789 --> 00:28:41,200
didn't have a huge impact on me but

777
00:28:46,470 --> 00:28:44,799
going through this process of

778
00:28:48,310 --> 00:28:46,480
being like oh like this is something

779
00:28:50,149 --> 00:28:48,320
that like i used to be like a complete

780
00:28:52,389 --> 00:28:50,159
skeptic and to go through this process

781
00:28:54,389 --> 00:28:52,399
of looking into this and then being like

782
00:28:56,149 --> 00:28:54,399
oh my gosh there really is something

783
00:28:58,230 --> 00:28:56,159
here and it's undeniable

784
00:29:00,710 --> 00:28:58,240
has had a little bit of an impact on me

785
00:29:04,149 --> 00:29:00,720
in terms of

786
00:29:06,950 --> 00:29:04,159
questioning my own perception of reality

787
00:29:07,909 --> 00:29:06,960
and wondering if i can trust myself in

788
00:29:10,149 --> 00:29:07,919
that

789
00:29:12,470 --> 00:29:10,159
um and i wonder

790
00:29:14,630 --> 00:29:12,480
what impact on a mass scale if there

791
00:29:17,350 --> 00:29:14,640
were at some point in the future some

792
00:29:19,110 --> 00:29:17,360
sort of a mass disclosure event you know

793
00:29:21,190 --> 00:29:19,120
how do you think like all of us

794
00:29:22,470 --> 00:29:21,200
culturally processing that at once i

795
00:29:23,830 --> 00:29:22,480
know you can't

796
00:29:25,510 --> 00:29:23,840
so unprecedented you don't have a

797
00:29:27,669 --> 00:29:25,520
crystal ball but like as a therapist

798
00:29:29,669 --> 00:29:27,679
like how do you even think through

799
00:29:32,950 --> 00:29:29,679
something like that like a possible like

800
00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:35,909
man

801
00:29:35,919 --> 00:29:39,590
i don't know

802
00:29:44,230 --> 00:29:41,830
it's going to run the gamut i know that

803
00:29:45,590 --> 00:29:44,240
right so some people

804
00:29:47,269 --> 00:29:45,600
there's going to be a whole host of so

805
00:29:48,630 --> 00:29:47,279
let's say okay

806
00:29:50,789 --> 00:29:48,640
um

807
00:29:52,950 --> 00:29:50,799
this evidence is released for example

808
00:29:54,710 --> 00:29:52,960
lou elizondo talks about this notorious

809
00:29:57,110 --> 00:29:54,720
23 minute video

810
00:29:58,310 --> 00:29:57,120
where a uap is 150 feet away it has

811
00:30:00,789 --> 00:29:58,320
portholes

812
00:30:02,389 --> 00:30:00,799
and he said you can see who's inside

813
00:30:04,070 --> 00:30:02,399
okay that's a

814
00:30:06,549 --> 00:30:04,080
that's a really big deal if that ever

815
00:30:08,870 --> 00:30:06,559
got leaked or released

816
00:30:10,870 --> 00:30:08,880
that's like the the keystone of

817
00:30:13,510 --> 00:30:10,880
disclosure something like that okay

818
00:30:16,549 --> 00:30:13,520
something totally undeniable there are

819
00:30:17,269 --> 00:30:16,559
going to be a whole host of reactions

820
00:30:18,789 --> 00:30:17,279
okay

821
00:30:20,149 --> 00:30:18,799
the people who are going to have the

822
00:30:23,510 --> 00:30:20,159
healthiest

823
00:30:26,149 --> 00:30:23,520
least stressful reaction are me and you

824
00:30:28,389 --> 00:30:26,159
and people listening to this podcast

825
00:30:31,029 --> 00:30:28,399
right so if this video comes out my

826
00:30:33,269 --> 00:30:31,039
reaction would be finally

827
00:30:34,710 --> 00:30:33,279
there it is all right yeah oh yes i can

828
00:30:37,269 --> 00:30:34,720
see in the portholes

829
00:30:38,710 --> 00:30:37,279
ah you can see the occupants

830
00:30:40,470 --> 00:30:38,720
and i wouldn't

831
00:30:42,789 --> 00:30:40,480
you know i i would still be

832
00:30:44,710 --> 00:30:42,799
stable i would be fine

833
00:30:46,149 --> 00:30:44,720
i wouldn't be freaking out because i

834
00:30:48,710 --> 00:30:46,159
know

835
00:30:51,350 --> 00:30:48,720
that was out there somewhere right and

836
00:30:53,750 --> 00:30:51,360
so i'm much more comfortable

837
00:30:55,830 --> 00:30:53,760
with all this uap stuff from the

838
00:30:58,789 --> 00:30:55,840
research i've done

839
00:31:02,149 --> 00:30:58,799
then you have people who

840
00:31:04,710 --> 00:31:02,159
you say uap they've never heard of that

841
00:31:07,029 --> 00:31:04,720
of those initials that abbreviation

842
00:31:09,110 --> 00:31:07,039
um they've never heard of lou elizondo

843
00:31:10,630 --> 00:31:09,120
they've never heard of john ramirez and

844
00:31:11,590 --> 00:31:10,640
all these kind of big names right they

845
00:31:13,750 --> 00:31:11,600
just

846
00:31:15,430 --> 00:31:13,760
they don't know you know they they

847
00:31:17,830 --> 00:31:15,440
they're like i think there were like a

848
00:31:19,350 --> 00:31:17,840
bunch of uaps or excuse me ufo sightings

849
00:31:21,590 --> 00:31:19,360
in the 50s and that's kind of all they

850
00:31:22,870 --> 00:31:21,600
know right and they've heard of roswell

851
00:31:24,870 --> 00:31:22,880
you know everybody's kind of heard of

852
00:31:27,750 --> 00:31:24,880
that

853
00:31:30,870 --> 00:31:27,760
those are the folks who are gonna

854
00:31:33,350 --> 00:31:30,880
probably have a very difficult time

855
00:31:35,990 --> 00:31:33,360
processing this okay

856
00:31:38,310 --> 00:31:36,000
so the easy explanation with the uaps

857
00:31:39,190 --> 00:31:38,320
like the the most benign is

858
00:31:41,509 --> 00:31:39,200
they're just

859
00:31:43,909 --> 00:31:41,519
from another planet like no big deal you

860
00:31:46,549 --> 00:31:43,919
know like they kind of look like us and

861
00:31:49,430 --> 00:31:46,559
you know maybe they're from uh something

862
00:31:50,630 --> 00:31:49,440
not too far away relatively speaking

863
00:31:51,750 --> 00:31:50,640
right

864
00:31:54,310 --> 00:31:51,760
uh

865
00:31:57,190 --> 00:31:54,320
the other theories get

866
00:31:59,350 --> 00:31:57,200
pretty wacky but they could certainly be

867
00:32:01,590 --> 00:31:59,360
true so for example on

868
00:32:03,669 --> 00:32:01,600
i'm of the school of thought that these

869
00:32:05,029 --> 00:32:03,679
are humans from the future

870
00:32:06,549 --> 00:32:05,039
and they don't travel through distance

871
00:32:07,669 --> 00:32:06,559
they travel through time

872
00:32:09,110 --> 00:32:07,679
that's

873
00:32:11,350 --> 00:32:09,120
what i'm thinking

874
00:32:13,509 --> 00:32:11,360
uh lou elizondo some other people on a

875
00:32:14,549 --> 00:32:13,519
roundtable podcast were thinking another

876
00:32:16,789 --> 00:32:14,559
dimension

877
00:32:18,789 --> 00:32:16,799
and that's where things get beyond my

878
00:32:20,789 --> 00:32:18,799
comprehension right so

879
00:32:23,909 --> 00:32:20,799
if we go with a future human doing time

880
00:32:25,909 --> 00:32:23,919
travel or through another dimension

881
00:32:27,350 --> 00:32:25,919
how does your average person process

882
00:32:28,870 --> 00:32:27,360
that

883
00:32:30,310 --> 00:32:28,880
i mean it's just

884
00:32:33,669 --> 00:32:30,320
it's just

885
00:32:35,110 --> 00:32:33,679
too much i mean it's even difficult like

886
00:32:36,549 --> 00:32:35,120
i don't even know that

887
00:32:38,230 --> 00:32:36,559
i like the thing i'm a pretty smart guy

888
00:32:40,950 --> 00:32:38,240
i don't even know what that means they

889
00:32:42,630 --> 00:32:40,960
might be from another dimension i cannot

890
00:32:44,389 --> 00:32:42,640
wrap my head around that i've reached my

891
00:32:45,990 --> 00:32:44,399
intellectual capacity

892
00:32:47,350 --> 00:32:46,000
so when you throw something that big at

893
00:32:48,310 --> 00:32:47,360
people

894
00:32:50,950 --> 00:32:48,320
um

895
00:32:53,350 --> 00:32:50,960
they're probably going to be

896
00:32:55,590 --> 00:32:53,360
totally overwhelmed and that can take on

897
00:32:57,269 --> 00:32:55,600
a bunch of different presentations

898
00:32:59,509 --> 00:32:57,279
or

899
00:33:01,350 --> 00:32:59,519
it's going to be business

900
00:33:05,509 --> 00:33:01,360
as usual

901
00:33:06,789 --> 00:33:05,519
and it will kind of be like a form of

902
00:33:09,029 --> 00:33:06,799
denial

903
00:33:10,710 --> 00:33:09,039
right so people are going to say let's

904
00:33:11,909 --> 00:33:10,720
say that 23-minute video is the thing

905
00:33:14,310 --> 00:33:11,919
that comes out they're going to say oh

906
00:33:15,669 --> 00:33:14,320
that's fake yeah that's fake you know i

907
00:33:18,149 --> 00:33:15,679
mean some people think the moon landing

908
00:33:20,149 --> 00:33:18,159
is fake so why not think this is fake

909
00:33:21,110 --> 00:33:20,159
this is even weirder than landing on the

910
00:33:24,230 --> 00:33:21,120
moon

911
00:33:25,990 --> 00:33:24,240
so the point is we're going to have this

912
00:33:27,269 --> 00:33:26,000
massive

913
00:33:29,190 --> 00:33:27,279
scale

914
00:33:31,269 --> 00:33:29,200
of different reactions

915
00:33:33,830 --> 00:33:31,279
on when i first started looking into

916
00:33:36,950 --> 00:33:33,840
uaps

917
00:33:41,029 --> 00:33:36,960
i became very worried

918
00:33:42,789 --> 00:33:41,039
i was not in a good place because

919
00:33:47,269 --> 00:33:42,799
it was kind of like my own disclosure

920
00:33:50,470 --> 00:33:47,279
event yeah i was like lord have mercy

921
00:33:52,870 --> 00:33:50,480
dude i think all this is real right

922
00:33:55,110 --> 00:33:52,880
which sir which i'm fortunate to

923
00:33:57,190 --> 00:33:55,120
experience because i found it so

924
00:33:59,990 --> 00:33:57,200
overwhelming and bothersome

925
00:34:01,590 --> 00:34:00,000
i went out of my way to disprove

926
00:34:03,909 --> 00:34:01,600
what i was seeing

927
00:34:05,750 --> 00:34:03,919
right so ah the tic tac uh could have

928
00:34:07,269 --> 00:34:05,760
been this and no i'm not gonna believe

929
00:34:10,069 --> 00:34:07,279
bob lazar

930
00:34:12,470 --> 00:34:10,079
but this mountain of evidence brought me

931
00:34:14,069 --> 00:34:12,480
back into reality i'm much more

932
00:34:16,069 --> 00:34:14,079
comfortable with it now and it's simply

933
00:34:18,389 --> 00:34:16,079
because i'm educated

934
00:34:19,669 --> 00:34:18,399
yeah no absolutely i think it's really

935
00:34:20,470 --> 00:34:19,679
interesting what you said about denial

936
00:34:21,349 --> 00:34:20,480
because

937
00:34:23,510 --> 00:34:21,359
you know i was just chatting with

938
00:34:25,270 --> 00:34:23,520
someone about this earlier where

939
00:34:28,230 --> 00:34:25,280
i almost wonder like that if that

940
00:34:30,149 --> 00:34:28,240
23-minute video comes out if people's

941
00:34:32,069 --> 00:34:30,159
response will just be that it's

942
00:34:34,149 --> 00:34:32,079
that it's fake you know i think we've

943
00:34:35,270 --> 00:34:34,159
gotten to this place where cgi is so

944
00:34:36,230 --> 00:34:35,280
good that

945
00:34:37,909 --> 00:34:36,240
you know

946
00:34:39,990 --> 00:34:37,919
no matter what the video it's either

947
00:34:41,750 --> 00:34:40,000
it's too blurry it's too short you can't

948
00:34:44,470 --> 00:34:41,760
see anything or it's too perfect can't

949
00:34:47,109 --> 00:34:44,480
be real it's totally cgi and it's just

950
00:34:48,950 --> 00:34:47,119
you know i wonder

951
00:34:50,710 --> 00:34:48,960
i i the human brain i feel like just

952
00:34:52,950 --> 00:34:50,720
protects itself and people protect

953
00:34:55,270 --> 00:34:52,960
themselves and so from this kind of

954
00:34:57,030 --> 00:34:55,280
stuff and i just wonder

955
00:34:58,470 --> 00:34:57,040
i wonder if there's a possibility that

956
00:35:00,710 --> 00:34:58,480
people just wouldn't even

957
00:35:02,470 --> 00:35:00,720
believe it that there'd be no expert the

958
00:35:04,150 --> 00:35:02,480
president could get on tv and say it you

959
00:35:06,550 --> 00:35:04,160
know and and the people wouldn't

960
00:35:09,030 --> 00:35:06,560
necessarily believe it

961
00:35:10,069 --> 00:35:09,040
yeah i agree with you i i mean some

962
00:35:14,310 --> 00:35:10,079
people think

963
00:35:15,910 --> 00:35:14,320
moon landing's fake i mean

964
00:35:17,589 --> 00:35:15,920
some people probably think elvis is

965
00:35:18,950 --> 00:35:17,599
alive somewhere chilling in south

966
00:35:22,710 --> 00:35:18,960
america

967
00:35:25,990 --> 00:35:22,720
and no evidence would suggest that

968
00:35:29,190 --> 00:35:26,000
so we have great examples of

969
00:35:31,670 --> 00:35:29,200
not very disturbing things people being

970
00:35:33,430 --> 00:35:31,680
in denial of and i love that you talked

971
00:35:35,910 --> 00:35:33,440
about video

972
00:35:37,670 --> 00:35:35,920
and uh photographic evidence so if it's

973
00:35:40,310 --> 00:35:37,680
blurry

974
00:35:45,030 --> 00:35:40,320
we'll just dismiss it but if it's really

975
00:35:50,790 --> 00:35:47,829
what like do you what do you need like a

976
00:35:51,589 --> 00:35:50,800
kind of blurry photo i'm i'm not exactly

977
00:35:53,030 --> 00:35:51,599
sure

978
00:35:54,390 --> 00:35:53,040
what people are looking for but

979
00:35:56,150 --> 00:35:54,400
somebody's recently talked about that

980
00:35:57,270 --> 00:35:56,160
and i think it's kind of funny yeah if

981
00:35:59,430 --> 00:35:57,280
it's blurry

982
00:36:01,430 --> 00:35:59,440
it's like a sun spot on a windshield if

983
00:36:03,030 --> 00:36:01,440
it's clear it's fake

984
00:36:06,230 --> 00:36:03,040
you just can't win

985
00:36:08,710 --> 00:36:06,240
absolutely and i wonder too about

986
00:36:10,230 --> 00:36:08,720
uh i won't name names but i'm sure you

987
00:36:11,349 --> 00:36:10,240
know anyone in the ufo community knows

988
00:36:14,150 --> 00:36:11,359
but you know there are these kind of

989
00:36:15,910 --> 00:36:14,160
like like really passionate debunkers

990
00:36:17,990 --> 00:36:15,920
who just like they have dedicated their

991
00:36:19,589 --> 00:36:18,000
lives to you know looking at just one

992
00:36:21,030 --> 00:36:19,599
video and saying like i'm gonna prove

993
00:36:22,310 --> 00:36:21,040
that this isn't real

994
00:36:23,589 --> 00:36:22,320
and i wonder

995
00:36:25,349 --> 00:36:23,599
i wonder if they aren't having the

996
00:36:26,870 --> 00:36:25,359
experience that you were talking about

997
00:36:28,310 --> 00:36:26,880
about being like really freaked out and

998
00:36:30,870 --> 00:36:28,320
then being like i'm going to convince

999
00:36:32,710 --> 00:36:30,880
myself that this can't be this can't be

1000
00:36:35,109 --> 00:36:32,720
real because i remember that fear

1001
00:36:37,589 --> 00:36:35,119
also when the moment when it all clicks

1002
00:36:39,030 --> 00:36:37,599
is not necessarily a pleasant experience

1003
00:36:40,790 --> 00:36:39,040
honestly

1004
00:36:42,390 --> 00:36:40,800
mm-hmm

1005
00:36:43,990 --> 00:36:42,400
yeah and i could think of a couple names

1006
00:36:46,230 --> 00:36:44,000
here you were probably thinking about a

1007
00:36:48,150 --> 00:36:46,240
couple of the same people

1008
00:36:48,790 --> 00:36:48,160
and

1009
00:36:54,069 --> 00:36:48,800
i

1010
00:36:56,230 --> 00:36:54,079
people go after the uh the navy fleer

1011
00:36:58,950 --> 00:36:56,240
gimbal video

1012
00:37:01,030 --> 00:36:58,960
where the uap is clearly rotating and

1013
00:37:02,470 --> 00:37:01,040
they go no it's just the gimbal and the

1014
00:37:03,750 --> 00:37:02,480
where the name gimbal comes from i

1015
00:37:05,109 --> 00:37:03,760
believe it's part of the camera that

1016
00:37:06,790 --> 00:37:05,119
actually rotates

1017
00:37:09,589 --> 00:37:06,800
the actual gimbal

1018
00:37:11,670 --> 00:37:09,599
was rotating and it's like look

1019
00:37:13,109 --> 00:37:11,680
if you want to go with that that's fine

1020
00:37:14,870 --> 00:37:13,119
all right so let's just say i throw in

1021
00:37:17,270 --> 00:37:14,880
the towel i'm like look

1022
00:37:18,870 --> 00:37:17,280
all right it was a weather balloon and

1023
00:37:20,630 --> 00:37:18,880
wasn't a uap

1024
00:37:22,790 --> 00:37:20,640
but it's like dude

1025
00:37:25,349 --> 00:37:22,800
that's that's only one

1026
00:37:27,030 --> 00:37:25,359
you've disputed right that i'll give you

1027
00:37:29,750 --> 00:37:27,040
that win you could put that in your w

1028
00:37:31,589 --> 00:37:29,760
column i'll put it in my l column

1029
00:37:33,270 --> 00:37:31,599
but

1030
00:37:38,790 --> 00:37:33,280
it's all

1031
00:37:41,190 --> 00:37:38,800
flocks of birds

1032
00:37:44,069 --> 00:37:41,200
at this point the the evidence is

1033
00:37:46,470 --> 00:37:44,079
undeniable and chris lato who runs a

1034
00:37:49,270 --> 00:37:46,480
great youtube channel he's a former air

1035
00:37:50,630 --> 00:37:49,280
force f-16 pilot now turned uap

1036
00:37:53,670 --> 00:37:50,640
investigator

1037
00:37:56,230 --> 00:37:53,680
he had a recent podcast episode he um

1038
00:37:57,829 --> 00:37:56,240
uh releases a youtube video every friday

1039
00:37:59,990 --> 00:37:57,839
so i wake up and i can't wait for my

1040
00:38:01,430 --> 00:38:00,000
chris lado video every friday

1041
00:38:03,589 --> 00:38:01,440
and um

1042
00:38:06,390 --> 00:38:03,599
he had a recent one where he he wasn't

1043
00:38:07,910 --> 00:38:06,400
analyzing video and still images he was

1044
00:38:09,190 --> 00:38:07,920
just saying

1045
00:38:13,990 --> 00:38:09,200
if

1046
00:38:14,870 --> 00:38:14,000
crazy

1047
00:38:15,910 --> 00:38:14,880
there's

1048
00:38:18,310 --> 00:38:15,920
no

1049
00:38:19,829 --> 00:38:18,320
way okay and even if we were to say okay

1050
00:38:21,670 --> 00:38:19,839
let's say 80

1051
00:38:23,990 --> 00:38:21,680
is totally bogus

1052
00:38:26,390 --> 00:38:24,000
then what about the 20 and what ledo

1053
00:38:29,349 --> 00:38:26,400
said is you just need one

1054
00:38:33,270 --> 00:38:29,359
right you just need one so if one of the

1055
00:38:34,790 --> 00:38:33,280
fleer videos is legit that's all we need

1056
00:38:39,750 --> 00:38:34,800
right it's just one

1057
00:38:42,069 --> 00:38:39,760
so to be a defect an effective debunker

1058
00:38:45,030 --> 00:38:42,079
um you would have to look at every piece

1059
00:38:46,950 --> 00:38:45,040
of evidence and have a series of wins

1060
00:38:48,390 --> 00:38:46,960
for everyone and that's simply not

1061
00:38:50,950 --> 00:38:48,400
possible

1062
00:38:52,069 --> 00:38:50,960
yeah absolutely i think i think it's a

1063
00:38:53,589 --> 00:38:52,079
little

1064
00:38:55,190 --> 00:38:53,599
you know people focus on debunking the

1065
00:38:57,430 --> 00:38:55,200
videos but like you said it would just

1066
00:38:59,430 --> 00:38:57,440
be one that they debunked but also like

1067
00:39:01,990 --> 00:38:59,440
where's the story behind that but

1068
00:39:03,589 --> 00:39:02,000
because what i don't understand is

1069
00:39:05,349 --> 00:39:03,599
i don't think that the pentagon wanted

1070
00:39:07,190 --> 00:39:05,359
to say any of this it took them a while

1071
00:39:10,069 --> 00:39:07,200
after it had already been leaked they've

1072
00:39:12,870 --> 00:39:10,079
done nothing but push back deflect

1073
00:39:14,710 --> 00:39:12,880
you know obfuscate uh

1074
00:39:17,589 --> 00:39:14,720
you know louis lozando had all of his

1075
00:39:19,349 --> 00:39:17,599
records just mysteriously disappeared

1076
00:39:21,829 --> 00:39:19,359
and peeled from the pentagon reaching

1077
00:39:23,270 --> 00:39:21,839
out to you know ufo podcasters to say

1078
00:39:26,069 --> 00:39:23,280
this guy's a fake and then we find out

1079
00:39:29,030 --> 00:39:26,079
that's not the case and it's just why

1080
00:39:30,790 --> 00:39:29,040
all of this if the if the video

1081
00:39:33,030 --> 00:39:30,800
was fake like for what i don't

1082
00:39:35,190 --> 00:39:33,040
understand

1083
00:39:37,829 --> 00:39:35,200
yeah and uh

1084
00:39:39,990 --> 00:39:37,839
you make a very good point so one of the

1085
00:39:41,829 --> 00:39:40,000
one of the treatment models i use

1086
00:39:43,670 --> 00:39:41,839
here at our practice is cognitive

1087
00:39:45,430 --> 00:39:43,680
behavioral therapy

1088
00:39:47,430 --> 00:39:45,440
we just call it cbt

1089
00:39:49,670 --> 00:39:47,440
and it's just facts evidence reasoning

1090
00:39:52,310 --> 00:39:49,680
logic so when you have somebody having a

1091
00:39:53,670 --> 00:39:52,320
cognitive distortion

1092
00:39:55,190 --> 00:39:53,680
let's say

1093
00:39:57,270 --> 00:39:55,200
they think that

1094
00:39:59,510 --> 00:39:57,280
the government is monitoring them

1095
00:40:01,109 --> 00:39:59,520
through traffic cameras here in colorado

1096
00:40:02,630 --> 00:40:01,119
springs okay

1097
00:40:04,870 --> 00:40:02,640
and they're not right it's just for

1098
00:40:07,109 --> 00:40:04,880
people who run red lights

1099
00:40:09,990 --> 00:40:07,119
what i do is i start at the very

1100
00:40:11,270 --> 00:40:10,000
beginning so i might say who made the

1101
00:40:13,030 --> 00:40:11,280
cameras

1102
00:40:15,190 --> 00:40:13,040
and maybe they know that all right and

1103
00:40:16,390 --> 00:40:15,200
who installed them well they they don't

1104
00:40:18,870 --> 00:40:16,400
know that

1105
00:40:21,430 --> 00:40:18,880
and okay but if they are recording this

1106
00:40:23,589 --> 00:40:21,440
data where's the data going

1107
00:40:25,750 --> 00:40:23,599
and they don't know that and so the

1108
00:40:27,750 --> 00:40:25,760
wheels fall off when people have

1109
00:40:29,430 --> 00:40:27,760
cognitive distortions and they're

1110
00:40:32,790 --> 00:40:29,440
they're stuck in this story that they

1111
00:40:35,030 --> 00:40:32,800
made up and they believe it's true

1112
00:40:39,190 --> 00:40:35,040
um i just say can you tell me more about

1113
00:40:42,790 --> 00:40:39,200
it and within less than a minute it's

1114
00:40:44,950 --> 00:40:42,800
they can see that this is not true right

1115
00:40:47,589 --> 00:40:44,960
so if somebody were to say

1116
00:40:50,870 --> 00:40:47,599
well you know this is made up and lou

1117
00:40:52,950 --> 00:40:50,880
elizondo never worked for atip and nick

1118
00:40:55,510 --> 00:40:52,960
pope never worked for the ministry of

1119
00:40:57,430 --> 00:40:55,520
defense over in the uk

1120
00:40:59,589 --> 00:40:57,440
and i would just say okay let's start at

1121
00:41:01,990 --> 00:40:59,599
the end of the story like a good

1122
00:41:03,750 --> 00:41:02,000
question is what

1123
00:41:06,309 --> 00:41:03,760
why would they why

1124
00:41:08,470 --> 00:41:06,319
you know why would lou elizondo not work

1125
00:41:11,510 --> 00:41:08,480
for atip or

1126
00:41:13,589 --> 00:41:11,520
is a tip a thing well yeah it is a thing

1127
00:41:15,109 --> 00:41:13,599
okay but he didn't work for him so who

1128
00:41:16,790 --> 00:41:15,119
did well

1129
00:41:18,470 --> 00:41:16,800
i don't know but it definitely wasn't

1130
00:41:21,190 --> 00:41:18,480
hint and it's like

1131
00:41:22,870 --> 00:41:21,200
okay it's like well how does he know

1132
00:41:24,790 --> 00:41:22,880
where the cafeteria in the pentagon is

1133
00:41:27,589 --> 00:41:24,800
then like

1134
00:41:31,589 --> 00:41:27,599
so with these folks who make up

1135
00:41:33,990 --> 00:41:31,599
intricate stories about how this is fake

1136
00:41:36,069 --> 00:41:34,000
it it it's almost another example of

1137
00:41:37,349 --> 00:41:36,079
cognitive distortion and they have to

1138
00:41:40,309 --> 00:41:37,359
prove to me

1139
00:41:41,829 --> 00:41:40,319
like lou elizondo is just i i don't know

1140
00:41:43,750 --> 00:41:41,839
i guess he's some random guy they just

1141
00:41:46,630 --> 00:41:43,760
picked him out of a phone book

1142
00:41:48,790 --> 00:41:46,640
when i start questioning that story the

1143
00:41:51,270 --> 00:41:48,800
wheels are going to fall off about one

1144
00:41:54,069 --> 00:41:51,280
minute in and it's really funny not to

1145
00:41:55,670 --> 00:41:54,079
talk about lou alexander too much but

1146
00:41:58,390 --> 00:41:55,680
him and nick pope

1147
00:41:59,190 --> 00:41:58,400
um i've seen articles

1148
00:42:00,710 --> 00:41:59,200
where

1149
00:42:03,190 --> 00:42:00,720
the authors of the articles and these

1150
00:42:06,630 --> 00:42:03,200
are major publications

1151
00:42:08,710 --> 00:42:06,640
they'll say lou elizondo claimed

1152
00:42:10,230 --> 00:42:08,720
to work for atip

1153
00:42:11,750 --> 00:42:10,240
now they're like what are you talking

1154
00:42:13,349 --> 00:42:11,760
about and i saw the same thing about

1155
00:42:16,470 --> 00:42:13,359
nick pope nick pope was kind of like the

1156
00:42:19,109 --> 00:42:16,480
louis elizondo of the uk in the 90s

1157
00:42:21,910 --> 00:42:19,119
and it will say nick pope claims to have

1158
00:42:23,910 --> 00:42:21,920
worked for the ministry of defense

1159
00:42:25,589 --> 00:42:23,920
and it's like

1160
00:42:28,069 --> 00:42:25,599
that's like saying eric schneider claims

1161
00:42:30,630 --> 00:42:28,079
he works at willow creek wellness no

1162
00:42:32,950 --> 00:42:30,640
i work at willow creek once

1163
00:42:35,109 --> 00:42:32,960
so they do these little

1164
00:42:37,430 --> 00:42:35,119
they're not jabs they use this very

1165
00:42:40,309 --> 00:42:37,440
weird language to question everything

1166
00:42:42,390 --> 00:42:40,319
that is clearly a fact

1167
00:42:44,950 --> 00:42:42,400
yeah yeah i think i really started to

1168
00:42:47,030 --> 00:42:44,960
recognize that that kind of conspiracy

1169
00:42:48,870 --> 00:42:47,040
thinking is not limited to people that

1170
00:42:51,990 --> 00:42:48,880
have been labeled in our society as

1171
00:42:53,430 --> 00:42:52,000
conspiracy theorists

1172
00:42:55,349 --> 00:42:53,440
there's a there's one journalist in

1173
00:42:56,950 --> 00:42:55,359
particular keith cloor who's written a

1174
00:42:58,309 --> 00:42:56,960
bunch of hit pieces on different you

1175
00:43:00,710 --> 00:42:58,319
know on different people in the

1176
00:43:02,630 --> 00:43:00,720
community including you know avilab and

1177
00:43:04,150 --> 00:43:02,640
lou elizondo and what i find so

1178
00:43:05,910 --> 00:43:04,160
interesting is not only does he do

1179
00:43:07,990 --> 00:43:05,920
exactly what you're talking about in his

1180
00:43:09,829 --> 00:43:08,000
articles without anything to back it up

1181
00:43:11,750 --> 00:43:09,839
but he also then

1182
00:43:13,829 --> 00:43:11,760
goes on his twitter anytime he does one

1183
00:43:15,589 --> 00:43:13,839
of this and does a huge thread for all

1184
00:43:17,270 --> 00:43:15,599
of his like you know he's a journalism

1185
00:43:19,190 --> 00:43:17,280
professor at nyu and that sort of thing

1186
00:43:22,550 --> 00:43:19,200
and like for all of his friends to see

1187
00:43:24,150 --> 00:43:22,560
that like oh why am i writing about ufos

1188
00:43:26,390 --> 00:43:24,160
you know and it's like he's so squeamish

1189
00:43:28,309 --> 00:43:26,400
about the topic that i'm like can you

1190
00:43:29,910 --> 00:43:28,319
really be like truly operating with

1191
00:43:32,069 --> 00:43:29,920
journalistic integrity if you're this

1192
00:43:34,390 --> 00:43:32,079
squeamish about the topic that you're

1193
00:43:37,750 --> 00:43:34,400
covering just seems weird

1194
00:43:39,829 --> 00:43:37,760
yeah uh my uh my undergrad is in a

1195
00:43:41,430 --> 00:43:39,839
speech communication and so i'm kind of

1196
00:43:43,910 --> 00:43:41,440
a rhetoric nerd i also write books

1197
00:43:45,510 --> 00:43:43,920
totally unrelated to my field so i'm a

1198
00:43:48,150 --> 00:43:45,520
word nerd

1199
00:43:50,069 --> 00:43:48,160
and the rhetoric

1200
00:43:52,150 --> 00:43:50,079
it all right well maybe there are two

1201
00:43:55,270 --> 00:43:52,160
things that annoy me the other one is

1202
00:43:57,910 --> 00:43:55,280
rhetoric and uh you know like

1203
00:44:00,069 --> 00:43:57,920
and i just wrote on twitter today uh it

1204
00:44:02,390 --> 00:44:00,079
was a it was a article and it said

1205
00:44:03,349 --> 00:44:02,400
something about a ufo hunter and i'm

1206
00:44:06,550 --> 00:44:03,359
like

1207
00:44:10,710 --> 00:44:06,560
why is it that anybody with any interest

1208
00:44:14,309 --> 00:44:10,720
in uaps is an alien hunter or ufo hunter

1209
00:44:16,309 --> 00:44:14,319
it's so weird i mean why not just say

1210
00:44:18,150 --> 00:44:16,319
uap researcher

1211
00:44:21,829 --> 00:44:18,160
or like uap

1212
00:44:23,829 --> 00:44:21,839
hobbyist or something like that and ross

1213
00:44:25,510 --> 00:44:23,839
coldheart has spoken about this and

1214
00:44:28,069 --> 00:44:25,520
that's where he starts belting out the f

1215
00:44:28,870 --> 00:44:28,079
word uh quite frequently

1216
00:44:31,349 --> 00:44:28,880
is

1217
00:44:34,829 --> 00:44:31,359
he he finds it just so

1218
00:44:37,349 --> 00:44:34,839
annoying and so incredibly

1219
00:44:38,710 --> 00:44:37,359
childish you know it's like if i were to

1220
00:44:40,470 --> 00:44:38,720
say to somebody

1221
00:44:42,390 --> 00:44:40,480
yeah uh i'm looking to work with

1222
00:44:44,630 --> 00:44:42,400
experiences or what's that uh you know

1223
00:44:46,550 --> 00:44:44,640
if they had an interaction with the uap

1224
00:44:49,190 --> 00:44:46,560
i know half the people would be like oh

1225
00:44:50,390 --> 00:44:49,200
like they saw little green men

1226
00:44:52,630 --> 00:44:50,400
it it's just

1227
00:44:53,990 --> 00:44:52,640
it's so effing

1228
00:44:56,870 --> 00:44:54,000
annoying

1229
00:44:59,990 --> 00:44:56,880
because it's incredibly

1230
00:45:01,910 --> 00:45:00,000
unnecessary it it it and i'm not sure

1231
00:45:03,190 --> 00:45:01,920
where their motivation comes from i mean

1232
00:45:05,030 --> 00:45:03,200
it could just be

1233
00:45:07,109 --> 00:45:05,040
ignorance it could be

1234
00:45:09,670 --> 00:45:07,119
everybody likes to be right it could be

1235
00:45:11,750 --> 00:45:09,680
their uncomfortability working around

1236
00:45:13,910 --> 00:45:11,760
somebody who's an expert in their field

1237
00:45:15,349 --> 00:45:13,920
i'm not really sure

1238
00:45:17,910 --> 00:45:15,359
but

1239
00:45:19,270 --> 00:45:17,920
revenge is a dish best served cold all

1240
00:45:20,150 --> 00:45:19,280
right so

1241
00:45:22,390 --> 00:45:20,160
when

1242
00:45:24,630 --> 00:45:22,400
a lot more comes out

1243
00:45:27,190 --> 00:45:24,640
i am going to gleefully say and i

1244
00:45:30,710 --> 00:45:27,200
usually don't get it this much i am

1245
00:45:32,630 --> 00:45:30,720
going to gleefully say i told you so

1246
00:45:34,069 --> 00:45:32,640
which is uh probably one of my favorite

1247
00:45:36,390 --> 00:45:34,079
things to say

1248
00:45:38,630 --> 00:45:36,400
same

1249
00:45:40,470 --> 00:45:38,640
no i think i mean i think that there's a

1250
00:45:43,109 --> 00:45:40,480
i know that like i used to think more

1251
00:45:46,710 --> 00:45:43,119
that way but i mean there is a very very

1252
00:45:50,230 --> 00:45:46,720
healthy dose of humility that comes with

1253
00:45:52,150 --> 00:45:50,240
recognizing that you had it so wrong and

1254
00:45:54,470 --> 00:45:52,160
there's part of me as much as i worry

1255
00:45:56,950 --> 00:45:54,480
about how disclosure if it happens

1256
00:45:58,470 --> 00:45:56,960
hopefully you know how that might go

1257
00:46:00,390 --> 00:45:58,480
there is part of me that wonders if like

1258
00:46:02,790 --> 00:46:00,400
ufos couldn't almost

1259
00:46:04,390 --> 00:46:02,800
save our culture just because we're in

1260
00:46:06,950 --> 00:46:04,400
this place right now where everyone is

1261
00:46:08,950 --> 00:46:06,960
so sure that they're that they're right

1262
00:46:10,550 --> 00:46:08,960
and in a very unexamined way where it's

1263
00:46:12,550 --> 00:46:10,560
like you have this package of beliefs

1264
00:46:13,990 --> 00:46:12,560
like if you believe this then you also

1265
00:46:15,510 --> 00:46:14,000
believe this then you also believe this

1266
00:46:17,750 --> 00:46:15,520
and you hate the people over here who

1267
00:46:20,630 --> 00:46:17,760
believe this and like

1268
00:46:22,390 --> 00:46:20,640
i i feel like having your reality shaken

1269
00:46:24,470 --> 00:46:22,400
up like that i have some hope that that

1270
00:46:27,430 --> 00:46:24,480
might snap us out of that a little bit

1271
00:46:30,710 --> 00:46:27,440
is just a culture

1272
00:46:32,710 --> 00:46:30,720
yeah yeah i um

1273
00:46:34,390 --> 00:46:32,720
one of the things i like about studying

1274
00:46:36,150 --> 00:46:34,400
uaps is

1275
00:46:38,550 --> 00:46:36,160
every single thing i could have said so

1276
00:46:40,069 --> 00:46:38,560
far is totally wrong

1277
00:46:43,430 --> 00:46:40,079
i'm just making like

1278
00:46:44,870 --> 00:46:43,440
pretty good guesses um and there's no

1279
00:46:47,510 --> 00:46:44,880
one out there

1280
00:46:48,950 --> 00:46:47,520
in the government private aerospace

1281
00:46:50,790 --> 00:46:48,960
whatever

1282
00:46:53,109 --> 00:46:50,800
who knows

1283
00:46:55,430 --> 00:46:53,119
the majority of

1284
00:46:58,230 --> 00:46:55,440
whatever the hell is going on here and

1285
00:47:00,630 --> 00:46:58,240
so what we can do is just

1286
00:47:02,630 --> 00:47:00,640
collect what evidence we have and come

1287
00:47:04,870 --> 00:47:02,640
up with reasonable

1288
00:47:06,950 --> 00:47:04,880
hypotheses you know again i'm going with

1289
00:47:07,910 --> 00:47:06,960
the with the future human thing i could

1290
00:47:11,430 --> 00:47:07,920
be

1291
00:47:13,190 --> 00:47:11,440
something that

1292
00:47:14,870 --> 00:47:13,200
we're not even discussing

1293
00:47:16,790 --> 00:47:14,880
it could be something totally beyond our

1294
00:47:19,589 --> 00:47:16,800
comprehension and we're like whoa we

1295
00:47:20,870 --> 00:47:19,599
didn't even think of that right

1296
00:47:22,470 --> 00:47:20,880
so i like

1297
00:47:23,430 --> 00:47:22,480
it's very good that you brought that up

1298
00:47:26,630 --> 00:47:23,440
i'm

1299
00:47:28,950 --> 00:47:26,640
about

1300
00:47:31,109 --> 00:47:28,960
what i think i know

1301
00:47:34,549 --> 00:47:31,119
right so i'll always say

1302
00:47:35,910 --> 00:47:34,559
i think i believe evidence seems to

1303
00:47:38,230 --> 00:47:35,920
suggest

1304
00:47:41,829 --> 00:47:38,240
i'm usually not that definitive in my

1305
00:47:44,470 --> 00:47:41,839
language so that's interesting is that

1306
00:47:47,190 --> 00:47:44,480
i do very good research into this and i

1307
00:47:48,470 --> 00:47:47,200
just have a new passion for it

1308
00:47:51,349 --> 00:47:48,480
and i'm very

1309
00:47:52,950 --> 00:47:51,359
cautious about what i say

1310
00:47:54,309 --> 00:47:52,960
but then again they're the people who

1311
00:47:56,390 --> 00:47:54,319
know nothing

1312
00:47:58,630 --> 00:47:56,400
and one of the reasons they're mildly

1313
00:48:02,230 --> 00:47:58,640
obnoxious is they say it was such

1314
00:48:05,750 --> 00:48:04,950
yeah yeah it's hard i see i mean you're

1315
00:48:10,630 --> 00:48:05,760
on

1316
00:48:11,510 --> 00:48:10,640
what goes down and the drama and all of

1317
00:48:13,190 --> 00:48:11,520
that and

1318
00:48:15,109 --> 00:48:13,200
you know i have a hard time engaging

1319
00:48:15,990 --> 00:48:15,119
just because there is a part of me that

1320
00:48:17,430 --> 00:48:16,000
i mean there are some people who are

1321
00:48:19,750 --> 00:48:17,440
just completely out of line and are just

1322
00:48:20,950 --> 00:48:19,760
trying to cause problems but

1323
00:48:22,549 --> 00:48:20,960
for a lot of people i actually have a

1324
00:48:23,990 --> 00:48:22,559
lot of compassion for them because the

1325
00:48:26,470 --> 00:48:24,000
things that they're saying you know a

1326
00:48:28,549 --> 00:48:26,480
year ago it could have been me and i

1327
00:48:30,309 --> 00:48:28,559
you know i sometimes i try to engage a

1328
00:48:31,349 --> 00:48:30,319
little but you can tell when somebody

1329
00:48:34,309 --> 00:48:31,359
just

1330
00:48:35,510 --> 00:48:34,319
away and i'm like all right maybe

1331
00:48:36,549 --> 00:48:35,520
another day

1332
00:48:38,950 --> 00:48:36,559
um

1333
00:48:40,470 --> 00:48:38,960
because it's it's tough to you can tell

1334
00:48:42,230 --> 00:48:40,480
that people are just so shut down that

1335
00:48:43,349 --> 00:48:42,240
you know they they say they want to talk

1336
00:48:45,190 --> 00:48:43,359
about it but they don't really want to

1337
00:48:47,510 --> 00:48:45,200
talk about it they want to tell you what

1338
00:48:48,390 --> 00:48:47,520
they think

1339
00:48:50,950 --> 00:48:48,400
i agree

1340
00:48:53,190 --> 00:48:50,960
uh when it comes to twitter and i've

1341
00:48:54,470 --> 00:48:53,200
written this on my account i said i'm

1342
00:48:56,870 --> 00:48:54,480
only here to help

1343
00:48:58,069 --> 00:48:56,880
but that's all i want to do is help

1344
00:49:00,790 --> 00:48:58,079
whether

1345
00:49:02,470 --> 00:49:00,800
an amateur uap researcher or

1346
00:49:04,549 --> 00:49:02,480
professional therapist

1347
00:49:08,069 --> 00:49:04,559
i'm only here to help

1348
00:49:09,829 --> 00:49:08,079
and very shortly into my twitter journey

1349
00:49:11,829 --> 00:49:09,839
when people were saying

1350
00:49:13,829 --> 00:49:11,839
you know eric you're a dummy and you got

1351
00:49:15,670 --> 00:49:13,839
duped and

1352
00:49:18,390 --> 00:49:15,680
charlatan and you can't do anything

1353
00:49:21,030 --> 00:49:18,400
useful with your degree

1354
00:49:23,750 --> 00:49:21,040
they get muted or blocked and i just say

1355
00:49:25,910 --> 00:49:23,760
if you're not here to help

1356
00:49:28,230 --> 00:49:25,920
you're on the wrong twitter page

1357
00:49:30,710 --> 00:49:28,240
you're on the wrong page don't be on my

1358
00:49:32,309 --> 00:49:30,720
page because that's all i want to do

1359
00:49:35,910 --> 00:49:32,319
right i'm learning

1360
00:49:39,750 --> 00:49:35,920
from this community i've been so warmly

1361
00:49:41,750 --> 00:49:39,760
welcomed it's been like very very nice

1362
00:49:43,750 --> 00:49:41,760
and as long as somebody shows up with a

1363
00:49:45,589 --> 00:49:43,760
genuine interest they like facts

1364
00:49:47,109 --> 00:49:45,599
evidence reasoning logic

1365
00:49:48,950 --> 00:49:47,119
and are humble

1366
00:49:50,710 --> 00:49:48,960
um you're certainly going to be welcomed

1367
00:49:53,349 --> 00:49:50,720
into this community

1368
00:49:55,109 --> 00:49:53,359
and that i'm very appreciative of

1369
00:49:56,549 --> 00:49:55,119
yeah absolutely

1370
00:49:58,150 --> 00:49:56,559
um something you said you know about

1371
00:49:59,270 --> 00:49:58,160
being here to help you know like i said

1372
00:50:00,710 --> 00:49:59,280
i think that's something that you know

1373
00:50:02,230 --> 00:50:00,720
from our own different angles and our

1374
00:50:04,630 --> 00:50:02,240
own different expertise that's something

1375
00:50:06,710 --> 00:50:04,640
we're both trying to do so you know as a

1376
00:50:08,309 --> 00:50:06,720
therapist who works with people who

1377
00:50:09,990 --> 00:50:08,319
you know have had traumatizing

1378
00:50:11,510 --> 00:50:10,000
experiences and have you know been

1379
00:50:14,069 --> 00:50:11,520
through these sorts of things what

1380
00:50:16,710 --> 00:50:14,079
advice would you have for me you know as

1381
00:50:18,069 --> 00:50:16,720
i embark on this journey of interviewing

1382
00:50:19,510 --> 00:50:18,079
people and you know i'm sure that along

1383
00:50:21,430 --> 00:50:19,520
the way i'm going to be talking to

1384
00:50:23,190 --> 00:50:21,440
experiencers you know what advice would

1385
00:50:25,030 --> 00:50:23,200
you have for me for like really dealing

1386
00:50:29,589 --> 00:50:25,040
with those conversations in a respectful

1387
00:50:34,150 --> 00:50:31,270
well i'm sure you do a fine job i mean

1388
00:50:36,950 --> 00:50:34,160
you're a great interviewer um

1389
00:50:38,950 --> 00:50:36,960
you just ask questions right and they go

1390
00:50:41,109 --> 00:50:38,960
at their own pace

1391
00:50:42,950 --> 00:50:41,119
so if i have somebody

1392
00:50:44,790 --> 00:50:42,960
uh we use the uh

1393
00:50:47,349 --> 00:50:44,800
i have the couple clients who got into

1394
00:50:50,309 --> 00:50:47,359
car accidents recently and they they

1395
00:50:52,390 --> 00:50:50,319
have poster back stress disorder from it

1396
00:50:55,349 --> 00:50:52,400
uh their first

1397
00:50:57,270 --> 00:50:55,359
visit here you know i'll say

1398
00:50:58,630 --> 00:50:57,280
in one sentence can you tell me what

1399
00:51:01,510 --> 00:50:58,640
happened

1400
00:51:03,829 --> 00:51:01,520
i was in a car wreck last spring okay

1401
00:51:05,589 --> 00:51:03,839
that's all i need to know right and then

1402
00:51:07,670 --> 00:51:05,599
they just kind of

1403
00:51:10,470 --> 00:51:07,680
progress at their own pace now i have

1404
00:51:12,470 --> 00:51:10,480
the advantage i have 50 minute sessions

1405
00:51:13,750 --> 00:51:12,480
unlimited as long as they want to keep

1406
00:51:15,109 --> 00:51:13,760
coming back and we have something to

1407
00:51:17,349 --> 00:51:15,119
talk about

1408
00:51:19,990 --> 00:51:17,359
and i see them once a week right so your

1409
00:51:21,430 --> 00:51:20,000
time is crunched

1410
00:51:23,270 --> 00:51:21,440
into this

1411
00:51:26,150 --> 00:51:23,280
but again

1412
00:51:29,109 --> 00:51:26,160
the the guest knows

1413
00:51:31,430 --> 00:51:29,119
what this podcast is about they know

1414
00:51:33,510 --> 00:51:31,440
kind of what they're getting into right

1415
00:51:34,309 --> 00:51:33,520
they certainly feel comfortable around

1416
00:51:35,589 --> 00:51:34,319
you

1417
00:51:37,430 --> 00:51:35,599
as it is

1418
00:51:39,589 --> 00:51:37,440
and they're going to go

1419
00:51:41,190 --> 00:51:39,599
at their own pace people are very good

1420
00:51:43,349 --> 00:51:41,200
at that when they

1421
00:51:45,430 --> 00:51:43,359
have some kind of traumatic experience

1422
00:51:48,870 --> 00:51:45,440
or their heart broken their husband

1423
00:51:50,710 --> 00:51:48,880
leaves them whatever it is i lost my job

1424
00:51:52,870 --> 00:51:50,720
they're the ones who

1425
00:51:54,710 --> 00:51:52,880
set the pace right and how much they

1426
00:51:57,030 --> 00:51:54,720
want to share

1427
00:51:58,630 --> 00:51:57,040
i know you wouldn't do this a common

1428
00:52:00,870 --> 00:51:58,640
pitfall

1429
00:52:02,470 --> 00:52:00,880
and i talk about this my clients all the

1430
00:52:04,150 --> 00:52:02,480
time because they've experienced this

1431
00:52:07,190 --> 00:52:04,160
with friends and family who aren't

1432
00:52:09,670 --> 00:52:07,200
professionals is

1433
00:52:11,030 --> 00:52:09,680
by our nature humans are

1434
00:52:14,950 --> 00:52:11,040
fixers

1435
00:52:15,990 --> 00:52:14,960
and we really like to give advice

1436
00:52:18,630 --> 00:52:16,000
so

1437
00:52:20,390 --> 00:52:18,640
a great example um

1438
00:52:22,549 --> 00:52:20,400
i experienced a setback in my life a

1439
00:52:24,710 --> 00:52:22,559
couple years ago it was it was about

1440
00:52:25,589 --> 00:52:24,720
employment and uh

1441
00:52:28,549 --> 00:52:25,599
i

1442
00:52:32,309 --> 00:52:28,559
mother

1443
00:52:37,670 --> 00:52:34,950
uh i was i was heartbroken over a job

1444
00:52:39,349 --> 00:52:37,680
loss uh it was my career at the time but

1445
00:52:41,829 --> 00:52:39,359
hey everything happens for a reason i

1446
00:52:43,190 --> 00:52:41,839
wouldn't be here if that never happened

1447
00:52:46,710 --> 00:52:43,200
and i'm

1448
00:52:49,109 --> 00:52:46,720
have this look of despair right and just

1449
00:52:52,309 --> 00:52:49,119
my tone my mannerisms i mean this looks

1450
00:52:55,430 --> 00:52:52,319
like a guy who's really bummed out right

1451
00:52:57,270 --> 00:52:55,440
and uh what happened and i told her and

1452
00:52:58,770 --> 00:52:57,280
the response i got was well you can't

1453
00:52:59,990 --> 00:52:58,780
dwell on

1454
00:53:01,030 --> 00:53:00,000
[Music]

1455
00:53:03,030 --> 00:53:01,040
and

1456
00:53:05,109 --> 00:53:03,040
i tell clients

1457
00:53:07,910 --> 00:53:05,119
if somebody ever says that to you you

1458
00:53:09,589 --> 00:53:07,920
need to come back with says who

1459
00:53:11,270 --> 00:53:09,599
hmm

1460
00:53:15,069 --> 00:53:11,280
so i hear these

1461
00:53:16,630 --> 00:53:15,079
kind of pieces of of advice and um

1462
00:53:18,150 --> 00:53:16,640
well-intentioned

1463
00:53:20,630 --> 00:53:18,160
comforting

1464
00:53:21,910 --> 00:53:20,640
uh pieces of advice i guess you could

1465
00:53:24,630 --> 00:53:21,920
say

1466
00:53:26,790 --> 00:53:24,640
i don't like when you're sad

1467
00:53:29,030 --> 00:53:26,800
you can't dwell on it forever

1468
00:53:31,349 --> 00:53:29,040
that happened so long ago

1469
00:53:34,309 --> 00:53:31,359
my favorite one is just think positive

1470
00:53:35,990 --> 00:53:34,319
thoughts uh by the way uh the person

1471
00:53:37,510 --> 00:53:36,000
probably considered that

1472
00:53:38,950 --> 00:53:37,520
uh

1473
00:53:39,910 --> 00:53:38,960
so

1474
00:53:41,589 --> 00:53:39,920
you know

1475
00:53:42,950 --> 00:53:41,599
let's say we'll go back to this job loss

1476
00:53:44,390 --> 00:53:42,960
thing right off the top of my head and i

1477
00:53:46,150 --> 00:53:44,400
know i'm a therapist so i kind of say

1478
00:53:47,270 --> 00:53:46,160
these things for a living if somebody

1479
00:53:50,230 --> 00:53:47,280
lost their job and they're looking

1480
00:53:53,510 --> 00:53:50,240
really depressed i might say

1481
00:53:57,349 --> 00:53:55,270
that sounds really difficult

1482
00:53:59,510 --> 00:53:57,359
or the car wreck

1483
00:54:02,309 --> 00:53:59,520
i've never been in one

1484
00:54:04,549 --> 00:54:02,319
but that does sound tough

1485
00:54:07,750 --> 00:54:04,559
right and what people are looking for is

1486
00:54:09,829 --> 00:54:07,760
just validation right if i so if i want

1487
00:54:12,230 --> 00:54:09,839
advice from you

1488
00:54:15,589 --> 00:54:12,240
i will start the sentence with

1489
00:54:20,230 --> 00:54:18,150
exactly anything other than that i am

1490
00:54:21,190 --> 00:54:20,240
not looking for advice i'm not looking

1491
00:54:23,270 --> 00:54:21,200
for you

1492
00:54:25,910 --> 00:54:23,280
to solve my problems

1493
00:54:28,470 --> 00:54:25,920
i'm just talking right kind of like we

1494
00:54:29,829 --> 00:54:28,480
are now so when these experiencers come

1495
00:54:31,670 --> 00:54:29,839
out and talk to you

1496
00:54:33,750 --> 00:54:31,680
it's going to be great because you're a

1497
00:54:35,829 --> 00:54:33,760
great interviewer and you're patient and

1498
00:54:39,109 --> 00:54:35,839
they're going to set the pace and you're

1499
00:54:41,510 --> 00:54:39,119
not going to start giving them advice

1500
00:54:43,030 --> 00:54:41,520
yeah no thank you i think um

1501
00:54:44,390 --> 00:54:43,040
you know my dad passed away when i was

1502
00:54:46,069 --> 00:54:44,400
20 and

1503
00:54:48,950 --> 00:54:46,079
i

1504
00:54:50,630 --> 00:54:48,960
that was just

1505
00:54:53,109 --> 00:54:50,640
you know everybody who does want to make

1506
00:54:54,950 --> 00:54:53,119
you feel better um but no one can make

1507
00:54:56,789 --> 00:54:54,960
you feel better you know and and

1508
00:54:59,109 --> 00:54:56,799
sometimes it just felt really

1509
00:55:00,549 --> 00:54:59,119
isolating all the the well-intentioned

1510
00:55:01,829 --> 00:55:00,559
comments that like he's in a better

1511
00:55:03,030 --> 00:55:01,839
place it's like

1512
00:55:04,309 --> 00:55:03,040
you have three kids under the age of

1513
00:55:06,950 --> 00:55:04,319
five i'm pretty sure the best place it

1514
00:55:07,829 --> 00:55:06,960
could have been was here you know i just

1515
00:55:09,349 --> 00:55:07,839
um

1516
00:55:11,109 --> 00:55:09,359
so that makes a lot of sense to me i'll

1517
00:55:12,789 --> 00:55:11,119
definitely keep that in mind

1518
00:55:13,990 --> 00:55:12,799
yeah

1519
00:55:14,870 --> 00:55:14,000
and then

1520
00:55:18,630 --> 00:55:14,880
so

1521
00:55:20,230 --> 00:55:18,640
springs do people need to be like in the

1522
00:55:21,670 --> 00:55:20,240
area to work with you or are you able to

1523
00:55:23,990 --> 00:55:21,680
take clients that are you know long

1524
00:55:26,630 --> 00:55:24,000
distance like doing on the like on zoom

1525
00:55:28,309 --> 00:55:26,640
or something like that

1526
00:55:30,549 --> 00:55:28,319
right so

1527
00:55:33,109 --> 00:55:30,559
uh i'm the only

1528
00:55:35,589 --> 00:55:33,119
uh therapist at this practice we have

1529
00:55:37,270 --> 00:55:35,599
seven now we just hired a couple more

1530
00:55:38,549 --> 00:55:37,280
who only does

1531
00:55:40,630 --> 00:55:38,559
in person

1532
00:55:41,670 --> 00:55:40,640
i do it for a couple reasons

1533
00:55:43,510 --> 00:55:41,680
okay

1534
00:55:45,910 --> 00:55:43,520
uh one is

1535
00:55:47,990 --> 00:55:45,920
if a person lives locally

1536
00:55:51,109 --> 00:55:48,000
and i offer them telehealth i believe

1537
00:55:52,549 --> 00:55:51,119
i'm doing the client a disservice

1538
00:55:54,870 --> 00:55:52,559
because especially if the client's

1539
00:55:58,470 --> 00:55:54,880
depressed what they want

1540
00:56:00,309 --> 00:55:58,480
is to stay in bed in their pajamas

1541
00:56:02,789 --> 00:56:00,319
and do telehealth

1542
00:56:05,510 --> 00:56:02,799
that is not a good idea right take a

1543
00:56:07,349 --> 00:56:05,520
shower get out of your pjs get in the

1544
00:56:09,670 --> 00:56:07,359
car or walk

1545
00:56:12,710 --> 00:56:09,680
and talk to eric at his office so i

1546
00:56:14,549 --> 00:56:12,720
think it's a i would be enabling them

1547
00:56:16,950 --> 00:56:14,559
to stay where they are it's it's kind of

1548
00:56:18,470 --> 00:56:16,960
funny at a client a year or two ago and

1549
00:56:21,030 --> 00:56:18,480
i could i could see his house through my

1550
00:56:22,630 --> 00:56:21,040
office and look out the window and see

1551
00:56:25,430 --> 00:56:22,640
his backyard and he wanted to do

1552
00:56:27,109 --> 00:56:25,440
telehealth and i was like dude just

1553
00:56:29,430 --> 00:56:27,119
you'll thank me right get up take a

1554
00:56:30,549 --> 00:56:29,440
shower and come over here

1555
00:56:33,030 --> 00:56:30,559
um

1556
00:56:35,990 --> 00:56:33,040
i don't

1557
00:56:38,549 --> 00:56:36,000
telehealth is

1558
00:56:41,910 --> 00:56:38,559
effective but i take that back

1559
00:56:43,510 --> 00:56:41,920
in person is most effective okay so so

1560
00:56:46,390 --> 00:56:43,520
telehealth does work

1561
00:56:48,630 --> 00:56:46,400
in person is most effective now

1562
00:56:51,750 --> 00:56:48,640
with that said i have a but there's

1563
00:56:54,710 --> 00:56:51,760
always a but right and that but is

1564
00:56:55,589 --> 00:56:54,720
if a uap experiencer wants to work with

1565
00:56:58,549 --> 00:56:55,599
me

1566
00:57:00,710 --> 00:56:58,559
i'd be more than happy to do telehealth

1567
00:57:02,390 --> 00:57:00,720
that's the only population i'll do it

1568
00:57:04,630 --> 00:57:02,400
with because i think they're going to

1569
00:57:06,309 --> 00:57:04,640
have a hell of a time

1570
00:57:09,030 --> 00:57:06,319
finding a therapist

1571
00:57:10,150 --> 00:57:09,040
educated in uap history and modern uap

1572
00:57:13,190 --> 00:57:10,160
evidence

1573
00:57:15,589 --> 00:57:13,200
right so i saw a client for a little bit

1574
00:57:16,789 --> 00:57:15,599
he moved to seattle and he wanted to do

1575
00:57:18,309 --> 00:57:16,799
telehealth

1576
00:57:20,630 --> 00:57:18,319
i was like dude just get a therapist in

1577
00:57:22,470 --> 00:57:20,640
seattle i'm sure there's plenty of good

1578
00:57:23,990 --> 00:57:22,480
therapists in seattle

1579
00:57:25,910 --> 00:57:24,000
that you can work with there's no need

1580
00:57:27,750 --> 00:57:25,920
to do telehealth with me right so

1581
00:57:31,270 --> 00:57:27,760
there's a there's a there's a great

1582
00:57:33,510 --> 00:57:31,280
supply of you know normal therapists out

1583
00:57:35,589 --> 00:57:33,520
there but if somebody's looking

1584
00:57:37,750 --> 00:57:35,599
to talk to a therapist about uaps

1585
00:57:40,710 --> 00:57:37,760
they're apprehensive to just

1586
00:57:43,349 --> 00:57:40,720
inquire with a random therapist

1587
00:57:45,270 --> 00:57:43,359
and again maybe be disqualified and oh

1588
00:57:47,589 --> 00:57:45,280
maybe you were hallucinating and do you

1589
00:57:48,870 --> 00:57:47,599
have a mental illness diagnosis and i

1590
00:57:50,390 --> 00:57:48,880
don't think that's real or i don't know

1591
00:57:51,990 --> 00:57:50,400
what you're talking about

1592
00:57:52,789 --> 00:57:52,000
they're not going to get that from me

1593
00:57:55,109 --> 00:57:52,799
right

1594
00:57:56,870 --> 00:57:55,119
so i think there are only few of us out

1595
00:57:59,589 --> 00:57:56,880
there there's myself and i recently

1596
00:58:01,910 --> 00:57:59,599
spoke to a gentleman in idaho

1597
00:58:03,030 --> 00:58:01,920
i'm aware of like maybe three

1598
00:58:04,230 --> 00:58:03,040
people

1599
00:58:06,829 --> 00:58:04,240
who

1600
00:58:10,230 --> 00:58:06,839
a uap experiencer could come to and feel

1601
00:58:11,430 --> 00:58:10,240
really comfortable right so for

1602
00:58:12,950 --> 00:58:11,440
run-of-the-mill

1603
00:58:14,870 --> 00:58:12,960
i'm having problems in life i have a

1604
00:58:16,150 --> 00:58:14,880
mental illness i ask them to come into

1605
00:58:18,549 --> 00:58:16,160
my office

1606
00:58:21,109 --> 00:58:18,559
if it's uap centered i'd be more than

1607
00:58:22,789 --> 00:58:21,119
happy to do telehealth just to make

1608
00:58:24,150 --> 00:58:22,799
myself more available to a bigger

1609
00:58:25,990 --> 00:58:24,160
audience

1610
00:58:28,150 --> 00:58:26,000
yeah that makes a lot of sense

1611
00:58:29,829 --> 00:58:28,160
um it's actually perfectly to my next

1612
00:58:31,990 --> 00:58:29,839
question which is you know

1613
00:58:33,109 --> 00:58:32,000
once you are too full can't take any

1614
00:58:33,910 --> 00:58:33,119
more clients

1615
00:58:35,990 --> 00:58:33,920
where

1616
00:58:39,190 --> 00:58:36,000
how would somebody

1617
00:58:40,309 --> 00:58:39,200
go about figuring out if a therapist

1618
00:58:41,750 --> 00:58:40,319
maybe they

1619
00:58:43,829 --> 00:58:41,760
it's very unlikely that they'd have like

1620
00:58:45,349 --> 00:58:43,839
your level of you know understanding

1621
00:58:47,910 --> 00:58:45,359
about the current evidence and where

1622
00:58:49,910 --> 00:58:47,920
we're at with all of that but how might

1623
00:58:51,349 --> 00:58:49,920
somebody go about figuring out if a

1624
00:58:54,549 --> 00:58:51,359
therapist was

1625
00:58:55,430 --> 00:58:54,559
safe for this sort of thing

1626
00:58:56,630 --> 00:58:55,440
right

1627
00:58:59,510 --> 00:58:56,640
so

1628
00:59:01,910 --> 00:58:59,520
i know of just one organization

1629
00:59:05,270 --> 00:59:01,920
and that's called opus

1630
00:59:07,349 --> 00:59:05,280
opus it's an acronym they're out of i

1631
00:59:08,789 --> 00:59:07,359
believe santa barbara

1632
00:59:12,309 --> 00:59:08,799
california

1633
00:59:14,549 --> 00:59:12,319
and when i got an interest in uaps as a

1634
00:59:16,390 --> 00:59:14,559
therapist a couple of people said oh you

1635
00:59:18,630 --> 00:59:16,400
need to get in touch with

1636
00:59:20,470 --> 00:59:18,640
opus this is the only only organization

1637
00:59:22,630 --> 00:59:20,480
i know of that operates like this so i

1638
00:59:24,870 --> 00:59:22,640
contacted them

1639
00:59:26,549 --> 00:59:24,880
and i said hey i'm a i'm a therapist i

1640
00:59:28,630 --> 00:59:26,559
know what i'm doing i'm really

1641
00:59:31,670 --> 00:59:28,640
interested in uaps

1642
00:59:33,750 --> 00:59:31,680
can you put me on your list of providers

1643
00:59:35,670 --> 00:59:33,760
so they vetted me or they're still in

1644
00:59:37,349 --> 00:59:35,680
the process of vetting me it's kind of

1645
00:59:39,030 --> 00:59:37,359
not sure what's going on

1646
00:59:42,710 --> 00:59:39,040
but basically

1647
00:59:45,190 --> 00:59:42,720
uh somebody in colorado could call opus

1648
00:59:49,190 --> 00:59:45,200
and say hey

1649
00:59:50,390 --> 00:59:49,200
do you know any therapists near me

1650
00:59:51,750 --> 00:59:50,400
who

1651
00:59:54,549 --> 00:59:51,760
um

1652
00:59:56,069 --> 00:59:54,559
would be safe for me to go to as a uap

1653
00:59:58,630 --> 00:59:56,079
experiencer

1654
00:59:59,829 --> 00:59:58,640
they'll look up my name my name pops up

1655
01:00:01,349 --> 00:59:59,839
in colorado and they're like yeah

1656
01:00:05,349 --> 01:00:01,359
there's eric schlemmer

1657
01:00:08,630 --> 01:00:05,359
down in colorado springs i just started

1658
01:00:10,710 --> 01:00:08,640
working with them so i sent an inquiry

1659
01:00:11,670 --> 01:00:10,720
they asked for my credentials i got back

1660
01:00:14,870 --> 01:00:11,680
to them

1661
01:00:16,789 --> 01:00:14,880
they recently sent me some material

1662
01:00:19,670 --> 01:00:16,799
i don't think i'm officially on their

1663
01:00:21,910 --> 01:00:19,680
website yet but it seems to be

1664
01:00:25,829 --> 01:00:21,920
just around the corner

1665
01:00:29,109 --> 01:00:25,839
when i do get on that list and get a

1666
01:00:30,710 --> 01:00:29,119
little more chummy with opus i'm dying

1667
01:00:32,150 --> 01:00:30,720
to know how many people they have on

1668
01:00:34,230 --> 01:00:32,160
their list

1669
01:00:35,829 --> 01:00:34,240
i mean

1670
01:00:39,190 --> 01:00:35,839
50

1671
01:00:42,549 --> 01:00:39,200
800 i have absolutely

1672
01:00:44,230 --> 01:00:42,559
no idea the p in opus is paranormal so

1673
01:00:45,910 --> 01:00:44,240
it's stuff beyond

1674
01:00:47,510 --> 01:00:45,920
uaps

1675
01:00:49,750 --> 01:00:47,520
as far as i know that's the only

1676
01:00:52,470 --> 01:00:49,760
clearing house for therapists

1677
01:00:55,109 --> 01:00:52,480
most of my clients find me and my

1678
01:00:57,109 --> 01:00:55,119
colleagues here at willow creek

1679
01:00:59,829 --> 01:00:57,119
through psychology today psychology

1680
01:01:01,829 --> 01:00:59,839
today is a print magazine

1681
01:01:04,390 --> 01:01:01,839
and they have a long long list of

1682
01:01:07,750 --> 01:01:04,400
providers so you type in your zip code

1683
01:01:10,870 --> 01:01:07,760
so i'll type in you know 80907

1684
01:01:12,870 --> 01:01:10,880
i want a female client this age and one

1685
01:01:15,829 --> 01:01:12,880
of their specialties is depression i hit

1686
01:01:18,470 --> 01:01:15,839
enter and it populates a list of people

1687
01:01:21,990 --> 01:01:18,480
in my neighborhood here

1688
01:01:23,190 --> 01:01:22,000
uap they don't have that box

1689
01:01:26,190 --> 01:01:23,200
to check

1690
01:01:28,870 --> 01:01:26,200
they have marriage and military and

1691
01:01:30,789 --> 01:01:28,880
lgbtq and all this other stuff

1692
01:01:31,990 --> 01:01:30,799
they don't have a box where i could just

1693
01:01:34,789 --> 01:01:32,000
say uap

1694
01:01:37,510 --> 01:01:34,799
it's not part of my bio either

1695
01:01:39,190 --> 01:01:37,520
my the owner of the practice here

1696
01:01:42,230 --> 01:01:39,200
has been

1697
01:01:43,510 --> 01:01:42,240
so supportive about me

1698
01:01:45,990 --> 01:01:43,520
coming out

1699
01:01:48,630 --> 01:01:46,000
as a guy who's interested in working

1700
01:01:49,510 --> 01:01:48,640
with experiencers

1701
01:01:51,190 --> 01:01:49,520
but

1702
01:01:53,910 --> 01:01:51,200
it kind of goes back to that stigma i

1703
01:01:55,990 --> 01:01:53,920
had to sit down with her name's kate i

1704
01:01:58,630 --> 01:01:56,000
said hey kate

1705
01:02:01,829 --> 01:01:58,640
uh can i go out and just

1706
01:02:03,270 --> 01:02:01,839
tell everybody i believe in uaps

1707
01:02:05,430 --> 01:02:03,280
because some people think it gives their

1708
01:02:07,589 --> 01:02:05,440
business a bad name you know like

1709
01:02:09,029 --> 01:02:07,599
they'll go to that practice

1710
01:02:11,190 --> 01:02:09,039
they talk about ufos and stuff they're

1711
01:02:13,750 --> 01:02:11,200
kind of weird over there right

1712
01:02:16,549 --> 01:02:13,760
so she's been really supportive so

1713
01:02:17,990 --> 01:02:16,559
a very long roundabout way to finally

1714
01:02:21,430 --> 01:02:18,000
answer your question

1715
01:02:23,990 --> 01:02:21,440
i'm aware of opus and uh other than that

1716
01:02:25,910 --> 01:02:24,000
it would kind of be a crap shoot you

1717
01:02:26,950 --> 01:02:25,920
know i think if you inquired at an

1718
01:02:28,950 --> 01:02:26,960
office

1719
01:02:30,710 --> 01:02:28,960
the secretary would have absolutely no

1720
01:02:34,630 --> 01:02:30,720
idea what you're talking about

1721
01:02:38,390 --> 01:02:34,640
and i think if you saw a therapist

1722
01:02:39,750 --> 01:02:38,400
you might not be well received

1723
01:02:41,670 --> 01:02:39,760
that's just a guess

1724
01:02:43,510 --> 01:02:41,680
yeah well that's why it's so important

1725
01:02:44,950 --> 01:02:43,520
the work that you're doing and i've

1726
01:02:46,309 --> 01:02:44,960
completely enjoyed this conversation

1727
01:02:49,029 --> 01:02:46,319
this has been a delight and i really

1728
01:02:50,230 --> 01:02:49,039
appreciate you taking the time um

1729
01:02:51,589 --> 01:02:50,240
i'd love for you to tell everybody where

1730
01:02:53,430 --> 01:02:51,599
they can find you all this will be in

1731
01:02:54,549 --> 01:02:53,440
the episode notes but if somebody you

1732
01:02:55,750 --> 01:02:54,559
know is listening and they'd like to

1733
01:02:57,750 --> 01:02:55,760
reach out what's the best way to get a

1734
01:02:59,270 --> 01:02:57,760
hold of you

1735
01:03:00,630 --> 01:02:59,280
yeah the best way to get a hold of me is

1736
01:03:02,789 --> 01:03:00,640
through my twitter page and that was

1737
01:03:04,390 --> 01:03:02,799
really the whole point of making is just

1738
01:03:06,470 --> 01:03:04,400
to let you know let know people i'm

1739
01:03:08,630 --> 01:03:06,480
alive out there somewhere and it's just

1740
01:03:11,109 --> 01:03:08,640
uap underscore

1741
01:03:13,109 --> 01:03:11,119
therapist i've had a couple people

1742
01:03:14,710 --> 01:03:13,119
personally message me there that's

1743
01:03:16,870 --> 01:03:14,720
that's fine they could totally reach out

1744
01:03:18,789 --> 01:03:16,880
that way they can have a casual

1745
01:03:20,870 --> 01:03:18,799
conversation with me there

1746
01:03:24,069 --> 01:03:20,880
if they would like to see me

1747
01:03:26,549 --> 01:03:24,079
in a client therapist relationship

1748
01:03:27,990 --> 01:03:26,559
then i would refer them to our actual

1749
01:03:29,670 --> 01:03:28,000
practice here

1750
01:03:31,510 --> 01:03:29,680
schedule an intake

1751
01:03:33,029 --> 01:03:31,520
if they're local it would be great to

1752
01:03:35,589 --> 01:03:33,039
see them in person

1753
01:03:37,829 --> 01:03:35,599
if they're not we can do telehealth

1754
01:03:39,829 --> 01:03:37,839
very cool well eric thank you so much i

1755
01:03:41,829 --> 01:03:39,839
really appreciate you taking the time

1756
01:03:46,880 --> 01:03:41,839
the pleasure was all mine

1757
01:04:19,230 --> 01:04:03,029
[Music]

1758
01:04:29,829 --> 01:04:19,240
oh